Episode Transcript (By @EyelessIris)
GABE: Before we get into the very first episode of Into Final Thoughts--and trust me, I know you're itching to hear it after that incredible first episode--I want to let you know about our partnership with Cartoon Crave. You may know these guys form the Cartoon Crave awards recently, but they do an amazing job keeping fans updated on all the latest news from the world of animation, including what's going on with our favorite show--Final Space. Make sure you check them out on Instagram @CartoonCrave_ and on Twitter @TheCartoonCrave.
Now, let's get into the episode.
[Final Space theme song]
GABE: Alright, welcome one, welcome two, welcome three even! Welcome all to the very first episode of the fourth season of the Into Final Space podcast--
OLAN: YES!
G: --I'm your host, Gabe Jones! And for the last three seasons I've been the guy in your ear talking about the TBS original series Final Spac--
O: MmmHmm, MmmHmm...
G: --sitting down with the creators and fans of the show, breaking down the episodes and giving you an inside look into Final Space
O: Yes! And I am Olan Rogers, the creator, the executive producer, the star, AND, all-around, just a great guy! From Final Space! So, I'm here and I'm here with Gabe and we're just gonna get into the nitty-gritty, the NITTY-GRITTY of episode one: "...And Into The Fire", okay? This is, I think, a really great episode, and I'm excited to talk about it, Gabe! I'm excited to--to do the deep dive! Are you excited to do the deep dive with me?
G: Hell yeah!
O: Say yes or no!
G: Yes! Absolutely!
O: You gotta ramp that intensity up to an 11, Gabe!
G: WOOO!
[hand claps]
O: GET AGGRESSIVE!
G: Let's do it!
O: Alright!
G: Alright! So yeah, so for this season of the podcast, if you are completely new, we're going to be going into the "Final Thoughts"! So every episode of Final Spce, Olan Rogers, myself, and some special guests will be deep-diving into these episodes as they premiere, so every Tuesday, after the release of an episode of Final Space, you can pop over to your favorite podcasting app, plug in some headphones, and relax as we break down this thing. It's going to be exciting. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
O: Let's do it.
G: Yeah. So, if you are here, you've watched episode one of season three, "...And Into The Fire," and if not, what are you doing here? Get out of here! Massive spoilers, pause this thing, go watch the episode!
O: What--why are you listening to THIS if you haven't watched the epi...--get out of here!
G: Yeah, yeah, but come back, please come back!
O: Come back AFTER you've seen it! Not now, get out of here!
G: Yep, for sure. So, Olan, are you ready to get into this thing?
O: Let's do it buddy!
G: Let's do it. Let's get into Final Space! Alright, we're back! Final Space is back, baby! Before we get like, into the deep of this episode, what was production like on this season? How did it go compared to other ones, and how did that--that thing that we don't talk about that affected the entirety of the year change the dynamics of recording season three?
O: Yeah! I mean, it was so interesting, kind of, making season three 'cause we essentially made the entire season at home. And you don't think you can make an entire season of tv at home until you do it. And, we did it! And honestly, like, it's kind of weird and kind of like it paralleled with kind of what was going in the world, you know? Basically our show, season three, our team is trapped in Final Space, and we were kind of trapped at home, making this thing about being trapped in Final Space! It kind of really lent itself to, you know, going through those struggles and kind of really pouring more creative energy into the show. And I think, you know, during the creation of it, you know everybody was kind of going through some sort of emotional mental barrier--
G: Yeah
O: --at some point. Like it was impossible not to--there was this one time, I think, during the production, it just hit me like a storm, and I don't really know exactly what, kind of, was going on, but you just feel like a zombie, you know? Like there's a fight-or-flight feeling, and you started to realize like, "Man, I could really put this into the show!" And just direct all this energy into the show. And so, we did! And I think through the writing, through the composing, through the comping and animating, the storyboard and the directing, I think it all just came up to another degree because there was nothing--...nowhere for us to go! But into the show, you know?
G: Right!
O: There wasn't! And I think it all came up in a really meaningful way, and it's kind of shocking to look at, you know, the show quality knowing that we did it at home compared to like a studio, it kind of looks better! You know?
G: Yeah!
O: Why? It's the big question mark, it's like why did it look better, why does it feel better, and I don't know! It's, it's a mystery! It's for sure a mystery.
G: Yeah, I think--I think we saw that a lot, just, I mean me personally, people have seen online, being trapped at home you kind of don't have anything else to do, so you know, you start putting your ambitions and your work into these new things and you know, finding new creative outlets or, you know, finding old ones. And we heard that a lot from the crew when we were recording the last season of the podcast, a lot of people who were stuck at home, various situations, but we're finding ways to kind of overcome the monotony of the days--
O: Yeah
G: --putting work into the show, so...I think it paid off!
O: Yeah, yeah
G: I think it looks excellent! (*laugh*) And we're definitely going to dive into that as we keep going through these questions. So yeah! We're picking this thing right up where we left it last season, right after we freed Bolo and entered Final Space, and we get off with a BANG, dude! You--(*laugh*)
O: Yeah
G: It was crazy! And you've mentioned this before, that you kind of envisioned this was how season two was gonna start, but are you happy with how season three kicked off?
O: Yeah! I mean, you know, the first episode of any--like, season is literally the hardest episode. 'Cause there's so much like, critiquing on that first episode.
G: Yeah
O: Like, is it gonna--it has to do SO much, like the entire season literally rests on that foundation.
G: Right
O: So, with season two, the thing that I--that I hated, and I actively tried to fight this, was "how do we kind of make this--this season kind of not have this, all this exposition," you know?
G: Right
O: It was such a massive, you know, undertaking to do so much in that season two pilot episode. Like, we introduced like five characters--
G: Yeah
O: There was a spaceship race, and the setup the whole show, like, it did so much, and I wanted to do a two-parter on that one. And I was like, "you know what, season three, we don't have the capability of doing a two-parter because a network wants it to get RIGHT into it. You know, you wanna get RIGHT into the fun, RIGHT into the show, and that was kind of the big thing with season two, is that really wanted to kind of sparse up this information and, you know, really do what we did in, basically, season one, but also kind of like, really sell the events of the--I remember the events in season one, episode ten, that fight, the battle for Earth, like--
G: Yeah
O: --sit on that a little bit longer. But they wanted it basically DONE, in like the first couple minutes, you know? They didn't want us to acutally go back to Lord Commander at ALL, it was like they just wanted to be done
G: Really? Wow
O: So, with THIS, it was kind of an interesting thing where it was like "okay, we don't HAVE to tell a lot of kind of exposition, and we don't need to, you know? And I think it's like we--so basically we did this jump, like a month jump. And I actually was like a big advocate for like a year. I wanted to do a year, I thought a year was cool, year just sounds cool, you know, a lot of time goes in that process and I remember, you know, Billy, one of the executives who was on the show at the time, he had a good note, and this was actually kind of a good note. And, I heard it one hundred percent like, people are gonna wanna know what happened with Gary and Quinn, they're gonna feel like they missed out on something. You know? And I was thinking, "Man, you know that's a really...-that's actually a good point. As much as I don't wanna admit it, I just kind of want to not do all this exposition. He did have a good point so like we shrinked it down to a month. You know? And then that time, you know, there's a lot that can happen in a month, and really, it was all about survival. So they haven't had the chance to open up and talk. So in this first episode, we were able to kind of really just kind of hit it off with a bang! in this cold open. Just--just a ride, right?
G: Yeah!
O: It's one of the coolest, epic cold opens that we've ever done, and you get the whole premise of the show within the cold open!
G: yeah
O: Just through and amazing action sequence. It is about survival. And once they land on that planet, and you see them all that awesome shot of them all just kind of on a planet together, "I know what I'm watching. I'm watching THESE guys trying to survive on, and in, Final Space"
G: Yep
O: And, I think once we kind of got out of, you know, past the title sequence and we're into the episode, it felt like "okay NOW we can really have some fun, and let's do a month jump. Let's not try to get into the nitty-gritty of like, "okay we gotta find water!" and all the stuff with like,- let's just kind of do the thing where basically they're--they're showing a little bit of the day-in-day-out, okay? Of what they kind of have been doing for a month, which is surviving. And then, let's get into the fun, you know? And I think that's--that's why I think this episode is--I think it works better than any of the previous first episodes, is, it didn't have--it's not really setting up anything.
G: Yeah
O: You know? It's just kind of an episode. It's actually just playing--and you're kind of having fun, there's lots of great jokes in there, there's lots of great action, stakes, like you're getting all of it in that first episode.
G: Yeah
O: But yeah, I think it's--I think it's a good one.
G: Yeah, I think it's--like you said it plays well for, whether you've been a fan since day one or this is your first time viewing Final Space. If you've been a fan for a long time, you've got the whole team squad there together, it's high-action, it's got the comedy that we're looking for, and if you're just viewing Final Space for the first time and this is the first time you've walked across this series, you're just like "wow, this is really something" and you get an idea of what's to come, without the explicit laying out of exposition which--which I think went really well.
O: Yeah
G: And that one month, it did give enough time to, you know, they're semi-settled but not at the same time, so...
O: Yeah! Yeah.
G: I think it worked out really really well.
O: Yeah! Except maybe, you know, the moment you start doing like a continuation like "The Next Day," it feels like you have so much that you have to answer and set up and talk about, before the audience is kind of down with it. But once that month jump--that jump happens, you're just "oh, okay! Yeah, awesome!" You know? Like you could really--you know what I mean? Like your brain is just like "Okay, a month has happened." They've been on the planet for a month, they've been probably doing LOTS of stuff, but whatever that happened in that month wasn't important. You know? NOW we're getting to the important stuff.
G: Yeah, yeah. For sure. So one of the things definitely that this episode kind of--the cold open...but just, beyond that, it's hard not to stay on your toes--
O: Yeah!
G: --this episode, from what I've seen thus far, that kind of continues into this season, so how did that whole idea of just, you know, keeping everybody on the edge of their seat sort of come into writing on this premiere?
O: Yeah, I think, you know, with this particular episode, there was a lot that we really wanted to kind of, you know, have the audience feel. And one of them was just kind of unsettled, the entire time. There's was kind of something--
G: Eerie?
O: Yeah! There was always something kind of eerie, always on the horizon. You know? 'Cause Final Space, we've set up this place as a dangerous place. And so you've got to see a little bit of those dangers, and so, that's what we wanted to do with this episode, really kind of set up that this is not a friendly place, this is dangerous, that around the corner, something bad could happen, at any moment.
G: Yeah.
O: And, I think that's how it should have been, that's how it should have been set up. Now obviously, we're so limited in what we can do animation-wise, because of just our budget and stuff like that. But I think we executed that, as best as we possibly could.
G: Absolutely.
O: Like there is not a dollar left in the bank account right now, it's all on the screen at this point. And I think with that episode, it's...it just feels...it's a lot of fun, you know? But it's also kind of eerie and you're getting a little bit of story stuff throughout all this adventure, and yeah! I mean it's, you know, there's always things that I look bacK and try to nit pick and all that stuff, but I do think that it's--it's solid, you know? It's solid.
G: Yep.
O: Solid.
G: Yeah and something else just along interesting this episode is, kind of harking back to what we were talking about, the team's here to get Quinn, and that's it, that was their goal, get Quinn, get out. That's that. We have that set as the beginning-end point of kind of the season, but this episode sets up a lot of really good--I guess just talking points and things that, without, like you said, being laid out explicitly in exposition, you know, really work well to kind of what else we will see this season.
O: Yeah, for sure.
G: Yeah. I think--I think it does a really good job of that. 'Cause I mean, we easily could have just popped into Final Space, figured out a plot, something, and then gone out. But there's, I think, a lot more interesting things to explore in this--in this new dimension.
O: Yeah! And another thing I that I really like, you know, with this episode, and hopefully a lot of people dig it as well, is that, the whole season kind of kind of premise really isn't--like, all the information, like, we didn't try to cram all this information into one episode.
G: Yeah
O: You know? 'Cause you're gonna get some of that in the next episode, we leave it with like a cool like teaser at the end of it. When basically they see Earth and we're like, EARTH, oh man oh snap! You know, it's EARTH!
G: Yup
O: And so, we could have said, you know, they could have tried to go to Earth and basically get all this stuff, you cram it more and more and more, that was the season two episode one. They just wanted more crammed, it was so much stuff, because they wanted to know all this--all these things! And it was like, there's not enough room! So it's like once you start cramming everything it goes, it goes and it's going like a mile a minute. And I think with this, the reason why I really like this episode too is I think the pacing is really strong too--
G: Absolutely
O: --where it feels like, you know, half of that amazing-I think-cold open that Ben Bjelajac did such an amazing job with, and the animators and boarders and everything, the compers, it's like, when you see that cold open, it's supposed to play like an energy soup. So it's fast, it's cool, but there's actually slow moments in it. You know? And it kind of, really kind of, we're able to kind of live in the moment and then you get to that point where they crash, and then you come out and you're kind of there. It kind of slows down, and it picks back up. You know what I mean? And then it slows back down then it picks back up it gets kind of like, it's not like "go go go go go go go go go go gotta get" that was like season two! It was like it was just a constant--'cause it was a space race obviously but it was like, the story should be, like BLAZING by--
G: Sure
O: But that--you know, that was just part of getting notes, it's like--in this, I think, episode, what really worked is that we're giving--we're kind of planting almost like feeding fish, we're throwing out just enough food--
G: Yeah
O: --basically for you to say "oh yeah, I'm satisfied. You know?"
G: Right
O: "--But also I wanna know what that is over there." You know? Like instead of like just kind of like being over--like, you're so full that you're like "ah okay--man, I don't know if I want to watch that next one" You know what I mean? Like, you're still hungry--
G: Yeah
O: Or wanna know what's happening, and I think that's...that's what we try to do.
G: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, we did, of course, a little bit mention the new intro, and of course we have to talk about it, 'cause the new intro!
O: Yeah
G: So, many people know its origins, but would you mind diving back into that for those who don't know, and why you've decided to bring back this intro for season three?
O: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know? Like it, this was always kinda part of the idea that I wanted to do, in season one. And it was kind of Gary falling through this, this tunnel space, you know? And there's something, just, I don't know, really cool that I wanted to try to do, is I wanted to try to have an intro that was very kind of HBO, and it's funny that it's now on HBOMax, you know like, I wanted--
G: Completed!
O: Yeah, one of those intros that felt very kind of like you were watching something epic. You know? And that was, it felt unique. And I felt like that title sequence DID that, like when you see that title sequence, you're like "woah! What am I watching? I'm not watching a sitcom intro, I'm watching something really kind of cinematic." And, unfortunately, they, after just, you know, a year of fighting the battle, trying to get that title sequence, I lost. I lost that battle. And you know, I think we submitted like close to, I wanna say up to thirty different title sequences.
G: Wow
O: And the one that obviously got selected was that one, the 3D one. And, you know, some people like it, some people hate it, and you know, it's--I'm kind of like indifferent on it. I think like it, served its purpose and, you know, I always think about the thing I wish I had, you know, when I see that title sequence, I'm like "now, it would have been awesome if it was all Gary falling through space on that." And so it kind of always just, you know, was just a, kind of like an unfinished, you know, sandwich. Just kind of--basically I go to take a bite out of it, and I just had to, somebody took the sandwich away from me before I even finished it. So it's like, I just kept thinking about that sandwich. You know? And so season two, obviously we didn't want to get into the nitty gritty about that, 'cause we were getting a lot of notes and were just like "you know what? Let's just do something with--" you know, they wanted like a full crew, full crew kind of like, you know, having fun kind of title sequence. That's what they really wanted. And so I feel like that season two title sequence did that really well, it's like you felt like you're getting the whole cast here, off on an adventure you know? Like--
G: Yeah!
O: They deserved it!
G: Yeah! They did a really, really good job.
O: And I think that one, you know I'm kind of...I think that one was the best you could have possibly done for a season two-
G: Yeah
O: --title sequence. I don't know what other title sequence could have been better for that, but...yeah! I think it's-it's kind of, it was cool to kind of approach season three, and then realize, "hey, you know are we doing a new title sequence? Because we don't have the money for it." And I was like, "uhh, yeah, but I mean we can't use season two because of the...you know Clarence is in it, and it's, a lot of those characters in the ship but it wouldn't make any sense."
G: Yeah
O: So it was like "Oh man! What about that old title sequence that we got animateda And we repurpose that!"
G: Yeah
O: And they were like, "uuuhhhh, yeah! Yeah I think we can!" You know? And it's like, could we just make it the updated Gary? And they--so we kind of like you know gave it back to Jam Filled for a little bit, and they, actually just kind of like, I feel like they just kind of reanimated the whole thing, because it's so smooth and it's like hand-drawn and--Oh, wow! I mean--"
G: I'll say, yeah we recently got the Twitter release, a couple of those--
O: Yeah
G: Just the sketch keyframes.
O: Yeah
G: They did an excellent job.
O: It was so awesome to kind of see it finally live, you know? And kind of basically get my sandwich back. You know?
G: Yeah!
O: Now I feel satisfied! Even if it's not a great title sequence, it's just something that was always nagging at me. You know? Like "what could it have looked like? What--" I think that, whenever I see it now I just--I get joy! You know, I get like a visceral joy of just like looking at that thing and I'm like, "That's what I had always wanted, was that"
G: Yeah
O: And sometimes in the process of making tv, you get the things you want, and you get the things you don't want. You know? But it's all about compromise, and balancing, you know, working through that relationship, and, you know, they--it all comes from everybody wanting to try to make the show better.
G: Yeah
O: And that's the thing, a lot of people feel like, it's all "the network are the enemies!" And it's like no they're trying to make the show better in what they think is better!
G: Right
O: And the creators try to do the same thing. And so, I knew what they were trying to do with the title sequence in season one. They wanted just that fun, "everybody together" kind of thing, you know what I mean? But I wanted something else, like and, I didn't know how to navigate that because I was so new to tele-
G: Yeah, yeah
O: So, it was--I didn't know how to describe it, I didn't know how to kind of articulate exactly what I wanted, and every time I did it was just like of like "well yeaah, you know but the head of the network wants kind of something FUN! And cool!"
G: Right
O: So I don't know, it--
[distorted sounds, presumably microphone/audio issues]
O: --is, you know? It basically, exists, you know? It's on season three!
G: Yeah!
O: [*clap*] WOOO!
G: Yeah, yeah I think it kind of, you know, watching this show grow I mean, the title sequence kind of shows that growth along with it, I mean it gives it a new feeling each time that we go through. So yeah and I mean, really the title sequence is, you know, if you are on something like HBOMax, or if you're streaming anywhere, it's one of those you can easily skip with a button press, but you know, if you've got a good show opener, why not just, I mean--
O: Yeah
G: The title theme's a bop anyway, so [*laugh*] I just watch to listen!
O: Yeah, I know!
G: --if nothing else, but yeah, I really like bringing that back and kind of harkening back to the beginning there a little bit. Yeah. But,--
O: Yeah
G: Let's talk a little bit about Final Space itself. There's a lot of, you know, theories, way back, and thoughts about what this universe was going to be, but could you give us, you know, a little bit of the thought process of what went into creating this completely new dimension outside of the established context that we had in the first two seasons?
O: Yeah I mean, I think we'll be,--we kind of had to actually visualize what Final Space was--
G: Right
O: --this season. And kind of, you know, season two we had a little glimpse of it, and so, you know I think what the--the interesting thing that we kind of--we had so many discussions on what Final Space was, how it was articulated, could there be other--like, how do you, how do you contextualize kind of actual space and is there a way to kind of do something really creative with it. I mean there were ideas in the early stages kind of like, you know, is it something like almost an unfinished building, where the deeper you go in space, like not basically vertical, but horizontal, no, no, not horizontal but vertically, like you would go down deeper, like almost kind of like an ocean. You know?
G: Yeah
O: And the deeper you get, the, you know, the scarier it gets.
G: Right
O: And it was like, the more we try to figure out how to articulate that, we're like "how do we visually show that?" You know? Like you could write something, but then you have to visually kind of, you know actually kind of map it out and make sure people can understand it.
G: Yeah
O: And I think what we ended up at was just kind of like, you know, it's not so much disnormal from regular space, you know? There's kind of like this veil, this really creepy kind of like, almost eyeball looking entry point to Final Space. You know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: And you see it a little bit in season two but you also see it at the beginning of season--this season. And it's kind of like you see this veins, and it's like, just a weird, really eerie part of Final Space, and then once you get into it, you realize that it's like, there's a lot of really bizarre-looking planets, and it doesn't look like normal space. It's always something kind of off about it.
G: Yeah
O: And that's what we kind of liked, anywhere that we're in this, in Final Space, we always wanted to do something that looked different, or looked slightly off or unique, and there ARE kind of-there IS life in Final Space, you know? It's kind of like how we imagine it was almost like the Mariana Trench. You know?
G: Yeah
O: Basically like the deepest part in the ocean, and there's life still down there, like they're albino, kind of aliens, you know? Like not like aliens, but I guess thery ARE like aliens at this point, they look like aliens! But it's like, they're albino, they've kind of been shut off from kind of the sun and upper part of basically the ocean that they can't really survive if they kind of go up higher, they have to stay down there. That's just kind of like the process of that. But we ourselves can't just like stroll down to the Mariana Trench, we'll die from pressure, and it's--human life cannot survive down there. So we kind of really thought that, we liked that idea a lot, is that, there's still life in Final Space, okay? And we wanted to do that for a couple different reasons. One, that we'll see later on in the season, I don't wanna divulge just yet, but once we get to it I'll kind of start talking about it, but another one is like you can't--we wanted to have that fun. You know? In seeing alien life that's in Final Space, it's not a lot but it's some, you know,--
G: You gotta have fun!
O: --what does that look like? Could it be that they've been stuck on this other side of space, and that, you know, how do they survive? You know?
G: Yeah
O: And so, we thought about that, and we also thought about, you know, kind of really diving into that idea, and you get a little glimpse of it, from basically, we call this character "Stan" because it was like an old joke that didn't make the cut, but the robot kind of guy, and he opens up his helmet and you see that the veins--
G: Yeah
O: And it's the same veins that Quinn has. And so you're starting to get the idea that basically the longer you stay in Final Space the more it poisons you.
G: Right.
O: You know? And so it kind of puts this ticking clock on not just Quinn, but every single one of our crewmembers.
G: Yeah
O: You know? And so, basically they're gonna have--that's gonna something that they're gonna have to face at some point, you know? That basically that's what that sets up. And I think, you know, it's just going back to the Mariana Trench, it's kind of the same way, you know? So, what does that mean? Okay, so basically if you think about it, you know, go back to season one, Lord Commander is dying. Okay? Because basically he got infused with Invictus' energy, and basically, you know, it started to kind of deteriorate him from the inside out, because he was a person in our, basically, dimension, our kind of you know, space, you know, where Earth was, that got infused with Invictus. Okay? So it's--you're going to see kind of a lot of interesting story points come up, and I don't want to give too much away, and we'll discuss it when we get to it, but yeah, that's the whole contextually idea of what we thought about Final Space. And the more we get--the deeper we get into it, the more we'll all divulge like little, more we'll all divulge like more little nuggets of information of what we kind of went into that process, but, I mean dude, we--we thought about it from every which way, like you know, kind of like, "what are the guts of space?" You know, like thinking of, you know, if it's a a house, you know? Basically, behind the wall of space, there's electronics, you know? Could that be the stars? You know? Like, we were thinking about it in such a creative way, that it opened ourselves up into a really cool spot to kind of do something kind of different, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And it was just kind of like, it's almost like just tightening the screw a little bit and saying hey, it's still space, you're still getting to see beautiful space, but there's something off about it. It's like, you know it's not--something's not right, something not quite right.
G: Yeah it plays into that, what we were talking about earlier, just that--that whole eerie feeling, like--
O: Yeah
G: --like straight up this series--this season has, you know, there's still a lot of comedy, there's a lot of really great action, it's really pretty to look at, but there's always just something sickly about it, you know? Just the--
O: That's it! That's good, yeah, you nailed it, right there, "sickly". That was, that was literally, I think I remember hearing Ben say that so many times, it's like, we wanted the space to kind of look sick.
G: Yeah
O: Like, kind of like, you know what I mean? Like it's just not healthy, like we're in a place that's been cut off, and so, we want it to kind of feel like that, but yeah, you nailed it, right there.
G: Yeah, I think it harkens back welld to, even season one, season two from what we've seen so far from the kind of remnants of Final Space, just within, the universe we've been accustomed to, and then you know, go back to episode nine of season two, with the kind of otherworldly glimpse into Final Space, and--
O: Yeah
G: And you know, Invictus, I mean it's--it's a force of evil, kind of poisons the universe, so...
O: Yeah, and that kind of makes you think even deeper, like was Final Space always kind of this poisoned place, or did Invictus end up poisoning--
G: Right
O: --And I think it's the latter, I think basically they sealed it off, you know? Basically from Invictus,
G: Yeah
O: Fighting this thing in the darkness, and they didn't realize "oh crap this thing is actually like--" you know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: Well there's like a deeper story, I don't wanna give too much away from--
G: Yeah, of course
O: But we, 'cause there's another little nugget there, that gets revealed, kind of, you know, and it kind of--man, it's just such an offhanded comment, but it's a big story point.
G: Yep.
O: Wish we would have spotlighted it more and put it in a later episode, but what I do think is that, you know, Invictus is the origin for all this poison, you know? The sickliness. And so that's what you're kind of getting, like it all stems from that origin point.
G: Yeah. Yeah. Which also just plays well into the, I mean, the other part of the season is, I mean a lot of what Final Space has done so far is, of course it's a battle for redemption and for growing these characters, and making up for past failures, but also I mean there's there's a lot of that just traditional literary battle between good and evil.
O: Yeah
G: And I think this season really plays into that very well.
O: Yeah yeah, absolutely.
G: Yeah. Alright, moving on to our next topic, RIP Crimson Light, 2021. What made you decide that she was off for this season? Goodbye Crimson Light?
O: Yeah I mean, we really wanted to kind of start this season off with a bang, you know what I mean? And I think, you know, something that I always like, and I don't think this is going to be kind of a thing that we kind of continue--sorry, my dog is scratching.
G: You're alright!
O: Tardis, you're good! Okay, but basically, yeah, it's like the Crimson Light, it kind of represented season two, in a way, and it was a home to them. And it makes it a really, I think, big point that basically their home gets destroyed in the first five minutes of the episode.
G: Right
O: And I think that's kind of, you know, a big moment of survival. Like, you HAD to kind of destroy that thing in order for them to really be...to have nothing, you know? And that's where we kind of wanted to start them. At that point, where they--nothing was safe, you know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: And so, I think, you know, one of my--one of my most favorite shots of that episode is when you see the Crimson Light just kind of burning, and this is going into the atmosphere of the planet, it's kind of like, you're like "oh man, that's--" that was season two, you know? It's kind of, it's kind of gone, you know? And it starts a new chapter.
G: Yeah
O: And-and I think that's kind of a really cool moment in the episode that I think it was--it was needed, and I loved that ship to death, we-we designed,--we tried to design that ship so much, and I think we came up with a really good design for it, and...yeah, it's always sad to see a cool ship go, you know?
G: Yeah, yeah, and I think, you know, what you were saying about that, the chapter closing, and I think that's almost poetic in a sense, it gives the season a sense of autonomy--
O: Yeah
G: --amongst what we've seen so far from Final Space, and I mean, from what you've shown me thus far it definitel--it connects, but it definitely has its own place.
O: Yeah
G: It really stands out. So yeah, I'm excited going forward to see what's next for our team crew and their flight vehicles.
O: [*laugh*] "Flight vehicles," is that what you call spaceships? "I like your flight vehicle, this is nice!"
G: [*laugh*] Yeah, you know, you gotta keep it special here on Into Final Space. But yeah! So, another cool thing that we've talked about a little bit, the team squad is all back together, for the most part. If only for a short period this episode but what's it like, what was it like for all of you to be back in your seperate booths, but reccording this season?
O: Yeah, I mean, it was, I think, you know, basically, I always kind of think of Final Space in, you know, I think it was really fun to kind of have the, just, the original kind of characters back with a lot--some of the new ones-
G: Yeah
O: And really kind of, just see everybody together, you know? And basically I think, you know, I always kind of see, you know, kind of Quinn, Gary, Avocato, as you know, basically Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman, you know? Basically it's kind of the holy trinity there, you know, and I feel like with those three characters, it's impossible not to think "Final Space" when you see them.
G: Yes
O: You know what I mean? When you see them together, you're like, "it's Final Space", you know what I mean? I think that's the feeling, and so there's this one really cool shot when Quinn sees that first Invictus-infused kind of Gary drop, you see that cool shot of all three of them and it's like "there it is!" You feel Final Space when you see them and you have Tribore come in and Little Cato, and like, you just feel the whole show when you see all those characters kind of together.
G: Yeah.
O: And, you now, what I wanted to do in season two was kind of the, a little of the reversal where they were seperated and they get back together, but in this, they're back together, they get seperated, you know? Like--
G: Yep.
O: And I think that was, you know, part of kind of really thinking of ways to make this dangerous place, you know? And basically them not together is scary, you know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: You want them to be together, you want them to be together and actually kind of fight this, you know, this evil as a team squad, but whenever they get fractured like this, you're like "oh man, what are they gonna do without each other?" You know?
G: Yeah
O: And so, I think it's like, it make it even more unsettling by the end of the episode when you realize, oh my god, what happened to the others, you know?
G: Yeah
O: But yeah, I think it was really fun to kind of, you know, have kind of Coty reccord, you know basically just, you know, it's been a while since we've seen him reccord more than six episodes, you know?
G: Yeah!
O: And, you know it's--it's kind of, it's great to see everybody just kind of really play off each other in the episodes, you know?
G: Yeah. Yeah, I think these characters really connect well with each other, and so yeah it is that kind of unsettling feeling of "why are they apart again?" Especially these group-ups we've had, I mean you have the quintessentials, I'd say, of just who we've come to know as Final Space, yeah, like that Gary, Quinn, Avocato group, but I mean we've also got kind of, the kids of the group, the, you know, we've got Ash and Little Cato and Fox and--
O: Yeah
G: --new additions like Sheryl so I mean,...and then Tribore of course, is Tribore. And excited to see, we'll talk a little more about him in a minute, but excited to see his solution to this series, as always.
O: Yeah
G: But yeah! So we've got these groups and so, you know, independantly, those groups are nice together, when we see the entire group together it's--it's always, "okay we're at home with the Final Space family." Yeah, so when they break up it's always sad to see.
O: Yeah
[both laugh]
G: Alright, so, I guess let's just get into it? Tribore--Let's talk about Tribore, and his son? Yeah, his son--what? Why?
O: Yeah--Nostro
G: Quatronostro
O: Spanish-speaking son
G: Yep, yep let's talk about those two!
O: Yeah! I mean, it was, it was kind of an interesting moment, I remember I kind of like, me and David had kind of like--we have been tossing around this idea about killing off Tribore. Like literally--
G: Oh wow
O: --in the first episode, it was something we had discussed multiple times, it even made it into our draft, like literally, and--
G: Wow
O: It was one of those things that, once we kind of got to the table read, and we read it out loud, we were like, "this just feels wrong."
G: Yeah
O: Like, you can't kill Tribore off, you just can't!
G: No
O: He basically, he's also kind of like, in our show, kind of like the "get out of jail free" card to add more comedy. You know?
G: Yeah
O: Any time that the network was like "can you add more comedy we're like *pffff* Tribore, yeah.
G: For sure
O: That's like, we can tell the deeply emotional story and it's like, yeah Tribore is where we're gonna put all the comedy. But yeah, I think it's--it just felt wrong, and it also was kind of something where we realized that we would be depriving ourselves of a really funny story between him and his son, you know? Like, and like and the language barrier of that and them trying to figure out how to navigate Final Space as well, it was just a lot of fun that was like, you know what, we've got to reverse this and keep him alive. And it--I think it was the right move, and he's just a lot of fun to voice too, and it would be something where it's like it was too soon, he would have done it heroically, you know? Like, actually went out pretty heroically. But it just wasn't--didn't feel right. I don't know, hard to explain.
G: Yeah
O: When you--
G: He gives a different--he gives a different feel to the season I think as well you know? It's just
O: Yeah
G: He IS the "get out of jail," he's the kind of go-to for comedy, especially, I mean, without spoiling just the interactions between him and Quatronostro this season are absolutely hilarious!
O: Yeah!
G: It's so much fun to watch. It's--yeah I'm excited to see where this goes.
O: Yeah! And I think the idea of having a Spanish-speaking kind of alien was just kind of really fun, you know? Like, you just--and Quatronostro's just awesome, you know? He's even cooler than Tribore.
G: Yeah
O: And so it's like, something that we always try to do is, we try to defy those expectations when you see a new character. We could have had aliens speak English, you know? But we thought it was cool to basically have the suaveness of just Zorro, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And it was like, what if, what if he did have an, as cool as Zorro--I love Zorro, man! Zorro is a fantastic character but those movies were even awesome too and it was like, could we have that? Could we actually have our cake and eat it too? And yes, we did. And it was great! It was such a funny joke that we were like "man, this is really fun" and then, you know, basically you're off to the adventure and you don't think twice about it. You know? And it's--you actually take the character pretty seriously and it's--those two are just a lot of fun together.
G: Oh yeah, absolutely. And you know, it just, it came out of nowhere, we've of course seen teasers and little drops here and there for a long time now, and suddenly--
O: Yeah
G: This character that we've been questioning who this, is this some distant relative or whatever--it's his son!
O: Yeah, it was--
G: Instead of just coming out of his neck
O: It was a very interesting thing to have to voice the giving-of-birth of--
G: Yeah!
O: Basically with myself, you know? Like I was on the other end of it too, and so it was kind of an interesting thing to do, I didn't really know what even happened, I just kind of zoned out. And lo and behold, I gave birth to that--that little guy! And, yeah, I think it was just, you know, Tribore, for a long time, has been that sidekick and was like, time to make Tribore Batman--WITH a sidekick, you know? With his Robin, you know?
G: There ya go!
O: And I think you get it, and it's...I think it's really fun.
G: For sure. Yeah so, another character dynamic that I really wanted to cover, and we've chatted a little bit about it so far, the Gary Quinn dynamic. We've missed them of course,--
O: Yeah
G: As Quinn's been gone the last season, we have the whole Nightfall thing, but I think we're all excited to see Quinn back, so what can you tell us about the continued Gary Quinn dynamic as we push through this season?
O: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Quinn and Gary, you know, this is what everybody, I kind of always wanted to see, just them kind of working through the day-to-day of life, you know? And--but it's under the backdrop of something really epic, and you're only gonna see more of that. Like if--it's, I think, like I forget how much Quinn and Gary we had in this season until you start watching the episodes come back and like, wow, we actually put a lot of Quinn and Gary stuff in this season, and I think it's great, and it plays on I think every level, and you're really rooting for them, you know? And I think, you know, every relationship they go through stuff, and I think with this, it's something where Gary,--I think Quinn knows that Gary went through all of this trouble basically, to come and try to save her. And there is a possibility that she might, you know, not make it. And I think that's the barrier right now. Like she doesn't want to kind of have to tell Gary that she's not coming back again. You know what I mean? And so it's--it's I think it's a topic that she doesn't know how to address because she's never had to address it--
G: Yeah
O: --with Gary. There was always kind of like, you know, in the show, a lot of the characters kind of, they went out heroically, you know, and they didn't really get to kind of actually communicate and talk, and I think you're gonna see a lot of it this season where they're like actually having to kind of work through stuff
G: Yeah
O: And I think it's, it's really cool to see them kind of just really talk, and I know that sound, you know, boring, off the rip--
G: It's not! It's not.
O: It's not! It's actually really great! You're like, "wow, I feel like I'm actually witnessing something here, this is great" and I think by the, by the finale, it's gonna--you know, everything that is kind of starting in this kind of episode, it's just gonna play so--it's gonna play so good. And, and I think you're getting so much Quinn and Gary throughout this entire season, that you're really--and if you weren't on board with them, you'll at least feel like "alright, I'm not against it," you know? Like, you know what I mean? Like they might not be still for it but at least they're not just so against it. But I think it's--Quinn has such an amazing story this season as well, and it's not just about Gary. You know? It actually has a really cool arc that's gonna start. And you're gonna kind of see something where I think it's gonna--people are gonna be really happy with where that goes.
G: Yeah.
O: And, and I think Gary--it's like, he's got his own little arc too where it's like, you know he can't, he's got to face the realization that he can't, you know, save everybody, you know? That it's an impossible task. And it's only kind of basically going to come to a head at some point where, you know, bad things are going to happen. And he's got to figure out how to deal with that. You know?
G: Yeah. And I think it brings it back at some point, something we talked about is just, you know, having conversations and facing consequences. That's something you talked about that you really want to bring into mind, these, I mean, hopefully maybe another season but especially this season. You know, talking things out and realizing who you are as a person and--
O: Yeah!
G: --how that effects the people around you.
O: Yeah and I think, you know, that's--that's just in general like a good thing in life, you know?
G: Yes
O: It's--the more you communicate with people and talk things out, I've got to a point where it's like, you know, if somebody tells me, you know, "two plus two is seven" I'm like "yeah, it is" you know? I just don't care to argue about it, you know? Because it's, if they wanna have a general conversation and really talk things through--becauce basically fights all emerge from lack of communication or a disagreement because of a lack of communication.
G: Yeah
O: And so a lot of these things could just be solved if people just talked to each other, and you get to see a lot of that in this season, that a lot of people in this show, they don't know how to talk to people.
G: Yeah
O: They don't know how to talk, and they don't know how to communicate that, because they've never had to do it. But you're seeing a lot of that kind of, in this season, because it's true with everybody, even now, like even--there's moments when I want to have a conversation with somebody and like, "I'll wait," you know? But it's like, something that we as humans just can't go past us, like we're so stuck in our ways, you know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: It's like, eventually you realize, it always comes to that point where you talk things out and you're like "man I wish I would have done that sooner." You know?
G: Yeah. And at the end of the day we all have flaws, there's always something--something wrong with us that you know, people are going to disagree on some point or another, so--
O: Yeah
G: You know, conflict resolution and meeting people somewhere in the middle to at least be able to talk, I think is a good starting point and I think--
O: Yeah
G: You know, this season hopefully will do, I think it will do it very very well.
O: Yeah, I think it's gonna be--I think it's gonna be really good. I think people are gonna really like where, kind of, we took it, and where we kind of opened up these characters and kind of broke them down and made them vulnerable. Every character in this show is vulnerable.
G: Yeah
O: And it's guys, it's women, it's everybody, you know? And it's, you'll realize it doesn't make them weaker in any regard, it actually makes them stronger.
G: Yeah
O: Like communicating these things and talking them out, they come out the other end better for it. And I think that's one of the cool things about this season, you're gonna see it, it's like, you know? They kind of communicate, it's like, "wow". Just sort of a relief comes over them. So you know, I think it's probably one of the best aspects of this season, it's 'cause you're getting a lot of resolution, but you're also getting a lot of just these characters kind of really talking to each other and communicating, and they're not just kind of on sort of such a bullet-time mission, you know? And it's not all about comedy, yeah there's comedy in there, but you know, they're actually kind of, you know, just talking. And I think that's something that sort of season one kind of lacked in a big way, and I think that's something that season two lacked in a big way, and I think you're gonna get that in a good deal this season, probably more than both those seasons.
G: Awesome. Yeah, and of course, we have to talk about the Garycato scene--it just, I mean it has to be done, that the people need to know how did that come about, was a complete change of topic there
O: Yeah, it's--it was such an interesting scene to write, and I remember at the table read, we were kind of just acting it out. It was so funny, man, it was just this idea that they were so--just, amazing friends, such amazing friggin' friends that they could talk through rocks, and that was, that was essentially where the idea originated, okay? Honestly it was like just kind of goofing off and I was like, "this is something they would do," just so dumb, you know? Like they basically would, you know, put their hand on a rock and try to communicate through rocks, and it was something really funny, and I pitched it to David and we started laughing and it was like "alright I'm gonna write it." And I wrote the scene, and then it was like, it was like everyone actively, and then the storyboarders, the design, like, and even Ben was like, "yo, we gotta put them in a friendship field." And I'm like, "if we put them in a friendship field then I don't think people are gonna thinking it's a friendship field." But it was so funny we were like "you know what, just go for it." It was like Gladiator, walking in the wheat fields and stuff, and it was like "yeah, just do it" I mean it's--at this point it's like, you know, just have fun with it. And I think it's--it's one of my favorite scenes because of how ridiculous-ness--just the nature of like how far we took it, you know--
G: Yeah, yeah
O: And it's just dumb, but you know even though like, I think one of the--the kind of like the sharpest moment in this where you're like "okay Gary WHATEVER" you know, is when he's like he takes off his shirt--that's again, another Ben Bjalaic thing--he didn't actually originally have his shirt off, he was like "dude, what if he took--" he didn't even have like, he put him in the animatic where he had like a tattoo on his shoulder, it's like--it's like ridiculous, but he had him like take off his shirt and then there was like, you know Quinn's like "what are you doing?" He's like, "you wouldn't understand, Quinn." You know it's like just that moment where you know, there's so many things that freakin', you know just guy friends do that--it's borderline...you know, just like "what are they doing." Like if somebody walked in on me and Coty playing this game, I think it was called like...what was it? I don't know, it was like "The Way Out" I think, there was a point in this game where like, you're playing as co-op, and guys turn on each other. And dude, we got so into this game, we were on the ground wrestling each other while we're like tapping controllers. If somebody had peered into a window--who knows what they would have thought? Okay? But it's like, that's the thing it's like that's where it plays into, it comes into like a really earnest spot, of, you know, just kind of friends who just take things too far and I think you know, we had a lot of fun with, you know, where we took it. And I think it was fun. And if people wanted to imagine something more, go for it.
G: They--they have.
O: Oh at this time, I feel like we're just teasing them at this point. You know?
G: Yeah
O: But if that's like--I mean--
G: What's wonderful about recording these episodes and--the past of the time of whoever's listening, this stuff has already occurred.
O: Yeah I mean if yo--the thing, the funny thing I always thing about is like if somebody new to the show decides to watch season three, and they pop on that, just that scene they're gonna be like "what am I watching right now?" But you have to understand that these characters are just, they all come from a spot of just, they really like each other, you know? And I think that's something that I really like about Final Space is that all these characters kind of like being around each other. You know? And somebody pointed that out, you know. It's--I didn't realize it was like, you know, a lot of episodes, or even a lot of like--KVN, I think you know KVN is like the exclusion. But there's a lot of characters and, you know, a lot of animated shows and they just don't like hanging out with each other. But you're like, you kind of believe that these guys are like, yeah, they would hang out with each other, for sure. And it's like--
G: Have coffee or something? Yeah
O: Yeah, yeah.
G: Yeah I could just imagine the average tv viewer scanning through channels at 10:45 at night, you know--
O: They see a Tribore birth scene--
G: Yeah
O: --to a Spanish-speaking--
G: Yeah
O: --offspring, yeah. Little bit like,...
G: "I'm gonna have to DVR this one and roll that back."
[*laugh*]
G: Yeah. Well, this about brings us to end, we've got the Earth back, the team squad's unforunately split again, but can you give us a taste of what's coming next, for episode two?
O: Yeah! Yeah, episode two is you know, I actually really like this episode. It's kind of a--it's a sleeper episode that I feel like--there's not a lot, like, anything big going on, it's kind of like the calm before the storm. You know? And--but it's genuinelly got a lot of rich story in it, and it's got a really cool tone to it.
G: Yep.
O: And unlike, you know, season two, that kind of flew off the rails in a different dimension, season three episode two, it actually, it's a very direct continuation--
G: Yeah.
O: --to what you just saw. And, it only escalates things, and then you really start to get the idea of the show's premise, of what they have to do, in episode two. And I think that was the cool thing, is we kind of got to do the two-parter almost, with this season, 'cause it kind of really plays like a two-parter.
G: Yeah
O: And, you're just gonna kind of really start to see things ramp up pretty quickly, and I think it's a great episode. I really do--it was one of those episodes that I started out thinking like "okay this is a pretty good episode," and every iteration I saw, I liked it more and more and more and more. And when the score came on I was like "oh my gosh, YES! I love this!" It just feel like it's the most classic Final Space episode.
G: Yes
O: You know? You feel like you're watching an episode straight out of season one.
G: Yeah
O: That's what I think.
G: Yeah, yeah. I--I rated it well, I enjoyed it a lot, and I think everybody else will too, next Saturday at 10:30 on Adult Swim. And that'll do it for our first episode of the brand new series, Into Final Thoughts here at Into Final Space. Thank you Olan for joining us--
O: Absolutely
G: --On this episode. If you're not yet, go follow the show on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or Anchor, if you are liking what you are hearing. Rate us on Apple Podcast, it helps push Into Final Space and Final Space itself out to a bunch more folks in the podcasting realm. Maybe they'll come across the show and go watch Final Space. Yeah, go and give @FinalSpace a follow on Instagram and Twitter, make sure you're following podcast @IntoFinalSpace on both those locations as well. The two of us will both be pushing out more content together, some exclusive to either or both of us, make sure to follow both of us and make sure you're following @OlanRogers and @GabrielWJones on both Instagram and Twitter as well. But yeah, you'll see us next time on Into Final Space with episode two, so be looking forward to it, will be out next Tuesday after the premiere of season two--or, season three, episode two on Adult Swim.
O: Awesome!
[Final Space theme song]
END.