Episode Transcript (By @EyelessIris)
GABE: Welcome to another episode of Into Final Thoughts. Before we jump into it, I want to tell you to check out our official partner of this season of Into Final Space: Cartoon Crave. Cartoon Crave is an incredible network and news source for all things animation including Final Space. To learn more, check them out on Instagram @cartooncrave_, and @thecartooncrave on Twitter. Now, let's get into the episode.
[Final Space theme song]
G: "It's a trap!"--is what you might be saying, 'cause after that serenading beauty to the ears in the last episode, you could not believe that it's happening again, but guess what? It can. If you're listening for the first time by any chance, my name is Gabe Jones, host of Into Final Space, and by proxy, our new aftershow, Into Final Thoughts, for Final Space season three, and I am here with--
OLAN: Olan Rogers! I'm the creator, executive producer, writer, the star of Final Space, and yeah! Let's get into it, man!
G: Heck yeah, we're gonna dive into all the juicy new details of this second episode, and maybe some crumbly new Biskits, wink wink. Before we get started, stop, come close and listen. This episode contains major spoilers for season three episode two of Final Space, so if you haven't watched, be warned and stay away, and come right back because we'd love to have you take a listen. Yeah, so let's dive right into the second episode of Final Space.
G: Earth! It's back!
O: Earth!
G: A lot of speculation has gone around on, you know, whether or not we'd ever see the Earth again after it was sucked into the void of Final Space--
O: Yeah
G: --after season one, what went into bringing it back for this season of Final Space?
O: Yeah! I mean I think we always--we always wanted to do something with it, you know, it wasn't always just like it just disappeared and we were never gonna touch upon Earth ever again. I mean that would just be insane.
G: Right
O: I think it would, you know, this is kind of a story that's stretching out over multiple seasons, it's not just kind of a--kind of a one and done and there's, you know, stuff that we'll bring up that maybe it happened in season one, and you're starting to see that now, into season three. And I think with, you know, seeing Earth, it's kind of something that everybody kind of always had in the back of their head, and I always liked kind of really revolving kind of, you know, a lot of story around Earth this season, because it was such a big part of season one, and in season two it was like you kind of saw the--what it was like to have, you know, a team that didn't really have a home, and the ship was their home. And now they're kind of going back, you know?
G: Right
O: And, I think it's kind of cool to see what happened to it, how it looks, what kind of state it's in. And, it's kind of really interesting to kind of get to go back there and tell actually kind of a big story about it. And we had this one idea, literally kind of--you're going to laugh at this--in the end of writing season one, we had this one idea that we just loved. And YOU don't even know it yet, you don't even--nobody has guessed this idea, man, I'm telling you. And, it involves Earth, and you're going to kind of get to see it in such a cool way. And I think it's gonna--it's gonna wow. It's gonna wow people. And, it's one of those things that we never had the--the chance to do it in season two, because at the time, funny enough, season two, we had got picked up for like sixteen scripts, you know, way back when before the season--or season one even came out. And so we kind of knew that there was gonna be a season two, and so we had planned kind of like, you know, sixteen episodes so--we were gonna kind of tell this story about Earth, technically in season two. But then they shortened it to thirteen episodes, and I think it was better that way, because sixteen was just kind of a weird number, and it was a lot, it was a lot.
G: Yeah
O: And, having to tell that kind of big of a story, it was just like well, where--where--it's just such a, I don't even think anybody really has sixteen-episode seasons. And so, we kind of had just been sitting on this idea for--since season one, and, it's--it's really cool to kind of get to--to open up those sort of season one threads that we get to kind of revisit. And one of those is Earth.
G: Yeah, yeah and that's one thing I think Final Space does really good, I mean--it's always a new story, we always get something fresh and new when we dive into these seasons, but there is enough callbacks to make loyal fans--loyal to the show--and that kind of flows into my next question here, that's just one of the things I love, calling back to old jokes, and we get that right off the bat. As soon as I saw Paris was in this episode, I just died laughing
O: Yeah
G: So could you tell us about, why Paris, and what's with Final Space's connection to the Europe in general? 'Cause we've seen Europe a lot between season one and this one.
O: Yeah, it was kind of--it was a fun kind of callback, you know, and we get--we kind of get to kind of go down a really important thing that HUE always wanted to do, he always wanted to go to Paris.
G: Right
O: You know? And you get that. And it's not the way I think that HUE would have imagined it happening, you know? But he still thinks its beautiful. And I think that's, you know, kind of like a really cool point to where he was at, you know? He's kind of--he's kind of had the--went through a little bit of the wringer, you know? He's this, kind of majestic AI, and then he's kind of got basically thrown into this garbage bot, with very little--limited processing power, but he's still kind of making it work, you know? And he kind of sees this broken-down Paris and he just kind of, is blown away by the beauty of it, and--it was fun to kind of call back to something that we had kind of like off-handedly kind of talked about, and I think those are the coolest callbacks--
G: Oh yeah
O: --is the callbacks that you don't think are gonna be a story point ever, and you get to call back to it and you're like "oh! It's that thing!" You know? Like "HUE wanted to do that!" So the people that catch it, they're gonna love it! And the people that haven't catched it, but WILL catch it, are gonna be loving it even more. So I think it's--it's a part of telling a lot of that cohesive story that has that connective tissue--
G: Yeah
O: --And that was something, unfortunately, that we were kind of told to take out of in season two, that connective tissue. They wanted a more stand-alone season, so we just were like, "you know what? Let's put connective tissue in every episode." And--and it doesn't have to be something that people, you know, really remember, or--or it's something that it could have been a off-handed joke in season one, and that's what we did.
G: Yeah
O: You kind of are starting to feel like "oh yeah, this is--this is the next step of Final Space, this is the next part of the story." And it was cool to kind of, you know, obviously like we had thought about where to go on Earth, you know? And so Paris was the obvious choice for us, you know? And I think it was literally because of that HUE moment, but also, once we kind of went to Paris, we realized, "you know what? Our show is kind of so well-known internationally, let's kind of visit a lot of the places that, you know, it's doing really well in." And we kind of do that--
G: Yeah
O: --And we don't get to go to EVERY place, but we do get to go to a few places that actually kind of are in that Europe region, and it's--I think it's a cool part to the story, but it also makes it feel bigger.
G: Yeah
O: 'Cause if it happens in one city, you're just kind of like, "oh," like, you know? But they are actually to multiple cities, things are--it's kind of like a little bit like a treasure hunt almost. And they gotta kind of find a ship, they gotta get this--you know what I mean? It's kind of like a--
G: Yeah
O: --it's kind of a--makes it feel more epic, when it's kind of very small in nature. So, yeah, I mean it was definitely fun to do that, and we had kind of always imagined it kind of being Paris from the get-go.
G: Yeah, and I think--I think that's one thing this season does really well, it's got that multi-dimensionality. There's a lot going on obviously, but I mean, every single place that we visit has its own kind of new life to it.
O: Yeah
G: and it kind of, you know, changes the scene in a way. You know, we talked about the last episode that those beginning shots of, you know, floating barren space, the scenically kind of vein-looking--
O: Yeah
G: --location, and then, you know, we have destroyed Earth, and you know, all these really amazing-looking, just backgrounds throughout the show. Absolute credit to Shadow Machine, and the magic that those artists do.
O: Oh yeah
G: But yeah, so I think it does really well, and yeah, it's always fun to see a good callback, for especially HUE who's just such a fun character, and--
O: Yeah, it was--I think even with just HUE's character in general, it was fun to kind of, you know, just give him a--just give him a little bit of a story here.
G: Yeah
O: And you get to see his body is kind of falling apart, you know?
G: Right
O: And it's--by the time he gets to the--to the ship, he's got no arms, and he has this opportunity to kind of get his old job back
G: Yeah
O: And it's kind of a really fun and cool moment to just spotlight that and--I think it's like--it's just, you know, the nect evolution of HUE, you know?
G: Yeah
O: It's kind of HUE 2.0, like he's got--he got to experience all that, and I think he's in a different mindset, but also, he kind of is starting to feel more like human, you know?
G: Yeah
O: Which is kind of a cool thing too, and I think we're only gonna see more of that in--just get ready, 'cause he has a really awesome moment by the end of the season, so it's--it's probably one of my favorites.
G: We're super pumped about that, for sure! So yeah! So, one thing I also wanted to talk about is, now we've got our team squad kind of split up, and we've talked about, you know, this idea a little bit for a little while, but what inspirations did you have to kind of insert this dynamic into the show, of splitting the team apart?
O: Yeah! I mean it's like, Empire Strikes Back, you know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: And that's probably one of my favorite movies, and funny enough, this is actually what I wanted to do in season two, you know?
G: Right
O: Kind of have the group divided, and then have them come together in a really cool way. And I didn't get to do it. So this season I knew that I was gonna do it, 'cause we have a lot of characters. And it's really hard to tell a story with kind of all these characters in one spot, and to give a spotlight to all these characters in a scene.
G: Yeah
O: And we knew that by splitting them up we could really start to focus and give each person kind of a moment, you know? In each part of the story. So by doing this, we knew that--it was kind of like cool seeing like, who was gonna go where, you know what I mean? Like who are we gonna split up here.
G: Sure
O: And yeah, I think it was kind of a cool thing to--to dive into, and split them up and--we knew that the two kind of beating hearts of--kind of the show, and the stories that we really wanted to dive into even further was basically Quinn and Gary, and Avocato and Little Cato.
G: Right
O: So we knew that we had to split those two up on their own adventures, you know? And really kind of start to flesh those out in a meaningful way. And I think, you know, we've been--the show just kind of goes and goes and goes and goes and goes on a mission, that you don't really get to have those quieter moments, those moments where you could kind of sit and just kind of talk. And so we knew we wanted to do that. And this is kind of like the first glimpse of it, and you're only gonna get more of it--
G: Yeah
O: --throughout the entire season, and it's like--it's cool that you know, we kind of got to start the season with a big action popcorn, you know, like--
G: Yeah, absolutely
O: And I still stand by kind of the idea of what we did, because it's like you can't set up the world AND implement a story, kind of like set up the story--
G: Absolutely
O: --in the same episode, we have twenty-one minutes to tell our story--
G: Right
O: --and we cannot go a second over, we have to cut. We have to cut--if it's a second over, we have to cut it. So we typically, you know, are just shaving off, you know, parts of the episode, because we have to meet that time limit. And that's just tv, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And so, within twenty-one minutes, you can't set up the world of Final Space, you know? Like what does it look like? What does it feel like? AND set up a story, so we knew that we kind of wanted to do a little bit of a two-parter, which is again, funny enough, what I wanted to do in season two.
G: Right
O: And basically, you get to see the Earth side, you know, with--and it kind of really spotlights Quinn and Gary.
G: Yeah
O: And episode 3 spotlights Avocato and Little Cato.
G: Yeah
O: And episode 4, it's kind of, you know, a really, kind of balanced kind of element where you kind of get the both of them. So it just kind of like--you get--It just feels good, like by the time you get to those episodes, you'll be like "yes! Okay I see what they're doing"
G: Yeah
O: And this episode, you really get the--the first inklings of what's going on this season.
G: Right
O: What they gotta do, what's the mission, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And it comes in a way that it lets it breathe more, because we don't have to set up anything.
G: Sure
O: And a lot of people, I think, might want to have done the reversal, where it's: set up the story and THEN do the big action kind of thing.
G: Yeah
O: But I think for that first episode, you've gotta come back with a bang
G: Right
O: You've got to.
G: Yeah, after how season two ended, definitely.
O: Yeah, it's like, we've tried the slower episode, which is essentially season one, episode one, okay? That's a pretty slow episode, you know, if you think about it.
G: Yeah
O: And it doesn't really set up, you know, the premise of what the show is about. You get that--you know, the Lord Commander's looking for Mooncake, but you don't know about a breach, you don't know about anything! You know?
G: Yeah
O: It's like, it's kind of really contained and small, and you get one little kind of action sequence, but that's about it, you know? And then season two, it was kind of just over-stuffed. It--there was not one inch of space in that thing. Because we just, they were like "we need more story, we need more this, we need more this, more jokes--"
G: Yeah, and that's what we talked about last episode, is just--
O: Yeah
G: --The need for exposition--
O: Yeah
G: --That really didn't need exposition
O: Exactly
G: And I think--I think these first three episodes really balance that super well. At this point, we've watched the third episode together, can't--not gonna spoil anything--
O: Yeah
G: --but yeah! I think--I think one set up this amazing--just, cold-open action, we established the world of Final Space, through this lense of survival, episode two really sets up well for, you know, Gary and Quinn's stories as they're gonna go throughout this season, and then episode three really plays well into the Avocato Little Cato story. And so yeah, I think these three episodes are kind of the quintessential Final Space team squad's trilogy.
O: Yeah, honestly, you know this episode, to me, is--I really like this episode. It--it's kind of so funny, 'cause when we started kind of boarding it, and every iteration, every version of the episode that I saw, I liked it more and more and more and more.
G: Yeah
O: And it was kind of--it's really one of those episodes that, to me, feels like classic Final Space.
G: Yes
O: You know? And we get to kind of have that, because of--of what that first episode kind of was like already kind of set up. You know?
G: Yes, absolutely.
O: So we didn't have to over-stuff this episode. We could just kind of let it breathe, and kind of have a smaller moment here and there, and, you know? And I think you--this episode just feels really balanced to me, and it's--it's one of those ones that, I always get a great laugh, a few really big laughs in there, and I love this one moment where you see Kevin Van Newton, Gary, Quinn, and HUE, and they're flying on the KVNs
G: Yeah!
O: And there's one song that Andrew actually did, and it--it's kind of like a new take on the Final Space theme.
G: Yeah
O: And I remember the first song he put in there, it was just kind of this generic kind of action song, and it was still good, and it was kind of dark, and I was like "No! No no no no no no!" We need fun, action Final Space. And he did this really cool song, kind of implementing the Final Space theme, and the moment I say that--dude, I was like "YES!" This--I rewatched that--just that clip, so many times, man. I burned out the kind of like click-play button--
G: Yeah
O: 'Cause you FEEL the--you feel the show in a very visceral way when you hear that theme.
G: Yeah, absolutely
O: You know, when you hear the Final Space theme you're like, "I'm watching Final Space!" And you're like--
G: Right!
O: --and you kind of get a smile on your face. And--and I think that's one of the things that I really like about this episode is that it's very light, it's very fun, you get some really nice emotional beats, and there's a lot of big things that are happening, but it never feels like it's too much, you know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: It feels like it's JUST enough. And I think this is probably, you know, the start of kind of really balanced episodes. There's a couple that I think, you know, later on in the season that kind of juggle--I think whenever we get into C stories I start to kind of--ugh, I hate C stories.
G: Sure
O: But sometimes you've just gotta serve a side character, but I think with these--with this season, you're really kind of only getting A and B stories, and then, it just goes straight into an A. It's very little that we have a C story.
G: Yeah
O: There's only, I think three episodes with a C story. And so, this one--it feels really kind of--just really well paced. I don't know, I liked this episode a lot.
G: Yeah. No, I definitely really really enjoyed it. So yeah, let's talk about, kind of what went on this episode, starting with our--our one half of the beating heart on the Quinn and Gary's side. We get to see the layer of Kevin, Kevin Van Newton--
O: Yeah
G: --And there's so much to break down, in--just in this section. So, I kind of want to start off with, a good comedy portion of: how did these guys get Gary's messages to Quinn?
O: Yeah, well, I mean, here's the thing. I don't want to give, you know, obviously, too much away. You know?
G: Of course
O: There's--there's things that you don't know yet, there's things that, you know, I have to be careful about how I say, and--I mean, all we gotta know is that, they went somewhere.
G: Yeah, and they ended up here, of all places!
O: And, it was, you know, obviously before it got pulled into Final Space. You know what I mean?
G: Right.
O: So, maybe they went to the wrong address, maybe they got intercepted, who really knows? But they got to watch them, okay?
G: Right, right
O: And I think it--it was a fun--again, another little cool, fun callback--
G: Yes
O: --to the season one of it all. And you get kind of some really cool callbacks to even season two, you know?
G: Yeah, there's a few season two jokes in there.
O: Yeah! And that's what we wanted to do, is really kind of put that cohesiveness and that connective tissue kind of throughout the entire season
G: Yeah
O: And you're gonna really I think, appreciate--and I say this with all my heart--I think that you'll appreciate season one more, and you'll appreciate season two more. Because it's gonna feel like it's a full story, you know?
G: Right
O: 'Cause right now it just kind of feels like season one is left kind of dangling out there as this serialized adventure, and then season two is just kind of like all over the place thing that, you know, gets there essentially.
G: Sure
O: You know? And it still has a serialized story, but it's like--there was those episodes that didn't have the tissue.
G: Yeah. Yeah, that's more traditional adult comedy.
O: Yeah, yeah. And even though we do try so hard to put that tissue in there. So--
G: Right
O: This season we were like "you know what? Let's just connect everything." Let's just kind of really--things that--that you're going to be like, "oh my, WHAT?" Like are gonna be such cool moments--moments that you're going to kind of leap up out of your chair.
G: Yeah
O: For like, "oh my god, they did THAT! I can't believe it! That makes sense! Oh my god, THAT thing? THAT?" You know, like it's gonna be moments like that throughout the entire kind of season. And it really is, and some of them are going to be kind of dumb and dorky, you know, and this is one of those dumb, kind of dorky ones where, you know, you get kind of a quick laugh out of it, and I think that's where it was kind of--kind of coming from.
G: Yeah
O: But yeah, I think that's--that the heart of it is, you know, it was kind of just a cool callback that we could do, and it just kind of like, it gives you a quick chuckle.
G: Yeah, yeah, and of course we have our biggest fan of those, and I'm sure everyone who's listening has been itching for me to just open this can of worms--Biskit--
O: Yeah
G: --who we've been waiting for since things were teased far back, and all we had was a silhouette, and people have loved him since those teasers came out. So--
O: Yeah!
G: So how was voicing him this season, and what should we expect of this little guy throughout season three?
O: It's kind of insane because I didn't expect people to really kind of love Biskit the way that they kind of love him, and you know, there's some people who probably will hate him, you know, I'm not immune to that--with things that I voice. But I do think that it's what we wanted to do with the character, and--it's kind of interesting. My take on the character is that I really wanted kind of the bubbley, you know, positive, pure being in this dark place, you know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: To have the polar opposite, you know? And I really liked that. And you'll kind of see, you know--obviously you know, I think you'll see later on in some episodes that you know, Biskit kind of gets a little--a little aggressive, and I think that that's the David Sacks saying "let's get him--let's amp him up, or let's kind of put a little twist on him" 'cause, you know, he is like--he looks like a little teddy bear, you don't want to make him TOO cute and TOO adorable, 'cause then it's like, "what is this character?"
G: Yeah
O: I get that, and so I do think that Biskit, for me, is such a hard character to voice 'cause it just creates such a strain on my voice. And I didn't plan on voicing him, I didn't necessarily want to voice him, it was just something that I kind of did to kind of sell the character, in like a meeting, back before the pandemic hit, and it--and it got laughs, you know everybody laughed--
G: Yeah
O: --at the character because it was just this goofy little guy, and then everybody that saw Biskit--and surprisingly, I did the scratch for Biskit, so I didn't even--'cause we didn't have any records, I think we were actually at one point going to get somebody to come in and do him. 'Cause seriously, I didn't want to voice another character.
G: Right
O: And--yeah, it's so hard for me to voice characters and find enjoyment in it at this point. But I essentially, you know, we were gonna get somebody to come in and audition, and I had to do the scratch of what I thought the character was. And I remember we essentially got the first note coming back and it was like "I love Biskit" in volumes. You know, and it was like executives, and I was like "what the freak?" Like, I thought people would hate this character. And maybe they do, I don't know, who knows? I don't even know how--'cause we were recording this before the episode, it could just be like "I hate Biskit!"
G: Yeah, I severely doubt it, I mean you never know!
O: Here's the thing, the moment you hear that thing purr, you're on board with this thing.
G: Yeah
O: For me, I was like, "we need to hear it purr." You know? Like an actual--'cause purring is like the most soothing, like, stress-relieving sound, you know? And it actually kind of does that. Like you hear a cat purr and you're like "Man, things are gonna be okay in this world," you know?
G: Yeah
O: And so with that, you know, I think that character is gonna be a comfort character for a lot of people--
G: Oh absolutely
O: --And I think it's--it's just another character that we can get, you know, some comedy out of it. And as we start wanting to kind of make the show more dramatic, the note, you know, will never go away of that this is a comedic, you know, animation. Like you can't make a pure dramatic show like this, and--and you know, still have a show.
G: Right
O: You know what I mean? And it's--and we've already, I think, tested the limits, so we'll see what happens, you know? If that season four comes around, but if it doesn't, then I think I'll know why. This season, of all seasons, would be the potential end, because it's dramatic--
G: It is
O: --and it gets really dramatic. And the thing is, you have, you know, a Tribore, you have a Biskit, you have these--like, characters that you could get some comedy out of. You know? And I think you're--we're starting to see that a lot of our core characters have these really deep, personal, dramatic, emotional stories.
G: Yeah
O: And there IS something to having a character that there's just not much going on to them. You know? And I--there's just--it's Biskit, you know?
G: Yeah
O: It's like--little intern that knows how to fix stuff, just a whiz kid at, you know, fixing things, and I don't even know if Biskit is an adult, a kid, I don't know what age Biskit is. Biskit's just Biskit, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And that's what it's just gonna be for a while. But once I started getting into Biskit and getting kind of voicing the character, I did start to have fun with it, you know? And you'll start to see that, you haven't even seen it. There's actually, one of my favorite moments, and it was kind of completely improved. And I did it in real time--I switched between the voices, so--that was something new that I kind of did this season. There was a couple moments where, you know, in episode three you'll see kind of this really cool scene and I can't say between who, but I kind of go back and forth, and it's really cool, and then with Biskit I was able to kind of do this converation with Gary and Biskit, and just doing it in real time. And it plays so good, and I was like, "Wow! I didn't know I could do that!" A, and B, it actually feels like, you know, I'm talking to the character, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And it's really funny. I actually loved that little exchange, and it--actually, there's another scene in another episode that I do it, and I guess at that point, Biskit isn't,...you know--I guess I shouldn't spoil THAT thing! Biskit's not away--you haven't seen the last of Biskit I guess!
G: Spoiler!
O: But yeah, Biskit, just so everybody knows--side character, okay? Not a part of the team squad. So nobody--don't worry, you're not going to be getting in-depth backstory to Biskit this season.
G: Yeah well, he's absolutely a fun character, I absolutley agree this is going to be a lot of people's comfort character. And yeah, it's got another Tribore-esque that just gives us this--a space to laugh, even when, you know, things get dark.
O: And that's--and that's something that we kind of wanted to do with Biskit too, is that, yeah, Biskit is an intern, but has--he's good at something! You know what I mean? He's good at fixing things, he's good at kind of, you know, working with his hands and electronics and all that stuff. And I think that's, with every character, they're good at something. You know? They're not just--they're not the butt of every joke. And I think that's what we try to do in this show, is that even though Tribore gets a lot of comedy, and Biskit will get a lot of comedy, they're actually good!
G: Yeah! Oh yeah, absolutely.
O: They're actually talented, they're actually useful. And you're gonna see that in this season, they're gonna be doing useful things. So I think it's kind of cool to see that. And I think you're going to kind of, you know--for example, even Quatronostro, I know that was kind of like a big moment in the episode and people are probably wondering where they're gonna go with THAT character. But he's just an awesome character!
G: Oh yeah!
O: Like--it's not even, like, people will think that it's kind of like a joke character, but it's not, you know? It's--the character's actually really awesome, and--
G: Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people--at least from what I saw, reactions after the episode were actually really really happy with how Quatronostro emerged and, you know--
O: Yeah
G: This character that we're going to see as this season goes on, he's a lot of fun, but he--he's--"useful" is a good word to use.
O: Yeah, no he's awesome!
G: Yeah!
O: Yeah! And you get to see more of that. And the thing is, the person that's kind of the joke out of that is Tribore. Tribore is the comedy area. Quatronostro is a serious character putting up with the joke character.
G: Yeah, yeah
O: It's like--and I could see how people are like "oh, it's a joke," you know? And it's like, no. This character is actually kind of buddies, kind of the son of this just--kind of just insane character. And--
G: Yeah, yeah, and they interact really well together.
O: Yeah
G: They meld well together. 'Cause I mean, Tribore is, a the end of the day, you know, very very very funny. And Quatronostro's a bit more, you know, the serious son of his, and yeah, they play off each other very well.
O: Yeah, and I think that's--that's the really cool thing, is that you get to kind of see them play off each other, and I think you're going to really like this character. And, another thing is, we really got to kind of dive into, you know, just kind of putting a really awesome character--and, you know, we get to do that with a lot of these characters, is to kind of give them something of value, show them that "hey, this isn't a joke, you know, this is actually kind of a really awesome character that is just a murdering machine that has all these skills and abilities, and I think with that, it's--it's just such an awesome character to kind of see on screen, that we wanted almost this kind of anime-like character with Tribore.
G: Right
O: I mean you look at Tribore and you look at Quatronostro and you're like, "well obviously Quatronostro's the cooler one of these two!" But yeah, so yeah. I don't know. But yeah. Biskit is a great character, and I think people are really gonna like Biskit.
G: I agree. And--talk about the intern, the intern to Kevin Van Newton, who we now know creates the KVNs, how long have you had this character up your sleeve, and is there anything more you can tell us about him, or what we'll see with him further down the line this season?
O: Wait say that again?
G: Uh, Kevin Van Newton? How long you've had this character up your sleeve and what can you tell us about him?
O: Oh, yeah, man! I actually have a spinoff script that I had written.
G: Oh?
O: And--yeah, I know, it's--it was called Hot Shots. And I mean, I guess I could talk about it, 'cause it was like, you know, such, forever ago that--I just kind of did it for fun--
G: Right
O: --'cause I wanted to see, "could this thing actually expand into something else and something cool?" And the two main characters were actually twins, you know, I think it was like--I can't remember the characters' names, but it was a sister and a brother. And they were trying to find like, kind of, their dad. And their dad actually kind of worked on the anti-matter bomb with John and Kevin Van Newton. And so, they had to go to this planet, and so they had to steal this ship, because the planet was so volatile, but they end up stealing a ship, and they go down to the surface, and you kind of basically see this like just desolate lab. Like it's kind of like, just empty, it's like, on this like storm-ridden world, essentially. And it was a little bit more dramatic, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And there was only like this one single KVN on the--like, kind of just insane, like, circuits all out, no shielding to it, and it was just kind of like, you know, still around, just kind of putting around the place. And you kind of get to see this recording from Kevin Van Newton, but essentially what they were trying to do was see what was on the other end of the dark zone. And so, it was kind of like a cool, like, continuation, and then at the end of it, you got like, Tribore, kind of like, I think showed up, and asked them if they wanted to join the resistence and all this cool stuff. But it was like--it was actually kind of a cool story--
G: That does sound very cool!
O: --And I knew at that point that I kind of wanted to do something with Kevin Van Newton. It was like, it was just kinda--you know, I always enjoy that stuff, I'm a big megaman fan so--
G: Yeah
O: You know, Doctor Light and Megaman, and any kind of scientist and their creation, you kind of always like figure out what that is, so we were like "man, it would be cool to really dive into Kevin Van Newton, the creator of KVNs." And there's always a lot of comedy there with Gary and the KVNs and the creator of KVNs, you know? And it's like, I think--it was a fun character to write for. We--I mean, sadly didn't get to kind of cast, you know, the people, or actually attempt to get even, you know, the person that we wanted, because of the pandemic, but Tom Kenny just absolutely crushes it, he always crushes it. And that's the thing, you don't always want to ask Tom Kenny to come in and crush a role, 'cause you know, there are other actors out there! We gotta try to get somebody else, it just makes it fresh and lively and you get to get your new voice and stuff like that, but every time I get Tom Kenny to do it, I'm like, "now I can't imagine it without Tom Kenny." You know? So---
G: Yeah
O: --It's a really fun character. And, I think another thing that I really wanted to do was make a character that, you know, is kind of insane. But also like, I'm gonna tell you straight up, he's not an evil character.
G: Right
O: There's no looming threat from Kevin Van Newton, you know? He is who he is. Like, you see that guy, he's just crazy.
G: Yeah!
O: He's starved for attention, and you know, he's just been around KVNs! If basically Gary went insane with one KVN, imagine how Kevin Van Newton feels with thousands of KVNs! So, you get a really cool kind of, you know, backstory to Kevin Van Newton, and kind of, you know, see that he had made all this other stuff, these inventions, he made it for the Infinity Guard, and they just kind of got shelved. And that's when you get to hear about the hyper-transdimensional bridge.
G: Yeah
O: And we knew--kind of like, we were thinking about like how do they get out of Final Space, you know? And I really love, you know, kind of shows that basically just kind of do something really sci-fi. And this is--that's as sci-fi as you can get, that's--there's so many shows--
G: Yeah
O: --Stargate, all those shows that do some like piece of technology that's kind of man-made, you know?
G: Yeah
O: Or alien-made, and they get to kind of, you know, go travel through places. And so we thought of this really cool story revolved around this sort of scrapped technology. You know? And it's not the only piece of scrapped technology that we're going to hear about. But it's like, it's--it's this piece of technology that--why did it get scrapped? And now, because this--basically this Earth got pulled into Final Space, if they activate this bridge, they can go to this other point that was in our universe. And so it was like "aw man that's such a cool thing," like, they just got to get this thing up and operational. You know? And so, really kind of diving into Kevin Van Newton, but also kind of getting to make a character that for once--and--I just like having characters that don't turn evil, you know? They're just kind of good characters. And I always wanted Kevin Van Newton--that's kind of like how I wanted to write Kevin Van Newton, was very Doctor Light from Megaman X, you know?
G: Yeah
O: How I would have imagined Doctor Light would be, if he was stuck with KVN, you know? But yeah.
G: Awesome, yeah. Alright, so, we'll leave those two and head back to the other half of our team, and yeah, this is--this was, for me at least, I think this was a great way to bring back our main evil, apart from Invictus, we've got Lord Commander back. What was it like, you know, bringing him back to the season, and what's it like with David Tennant to voice this guy?
O: Yeah, you know, we always had a plan for Lord Commander. You know? And we wanted to kind of always bring him back. But at the same time, you know, in season two, I mean, it's one of those things that we couldn't continue the story of the Lord Commander, and make the serialized thing. So we actually had to kill him off in that first episode. So that's kind of how that went in season two. That's kind of one of those changes that we were kind of forced to make, and--but I was like, "I'm not ready to say goodbye to this character because I know what I want to do with this character. So, how I'm gonna go about it, and what I was hoping is like, "okay, if I can just do this, and kick it down the road, I can deal with it down the road. You know?"
G: Yeah
O: And so that's kind of what we kind of did, was try to set up this larger villain that takes Lord Commander, and you kind of get a little bit of that tease at the top of that episode. And so, we thought about so many different ways about how to approach, you know, kind of bringing back the Lord Commander. And we thought, "you know what? Let's just kind of have the Lord Commander just roll up," you know? Just kind of like show up in a big way.
G: Yeah
O: And you're like "oh crap it's the Lord Commander!" And then let's get into how he got there, in the next episode. You know? And I think that's the fun part about telling stories this season, is we're able to go back to that serialized nature and actually kind of give, you know, beats and time to these characters that we couldn't do in season two. You know? And in season two, it was, you know, it was "kill him off," you know? That's all we could do,--
G: Yeah, yeah
O: 'Cause it was like, they wanted it standalone, they wanted adventure, and there was no way that we could--I remember we had even one more story written--we had this one draft of "The Torro Regata" that was--I loved. I absolutely loved, it was amazing. It was so good. And after like 40 drafts from that point, it kind of became something else, you know?
G: Right
O: But I think the version in there had so much more Lord Commander. That first--third draft, had more Lord Commander, where he wasn't actually dead! I know people are gonna be like "NO!" But it's like, that's tv man, sometimes you gotta, you know, just be a good partner, and we tried to push back as much as we could, and it was a hard one, man. That was a hard one. And even episode two, season two was a hard one. But I feel good about this episode two. And it feels like, you know, kind of redemption for me, you know, that episode twos aren't bad, episode ones aren't THAT bad.
G: Yeah
O: But episode twos, they could be good! And I love this episode. And I say that with all my heart, I know that this is a good episode. And is it my favorite episode? It's not my favorite episode, but it's--it's on the list of like A. This is a really good episode.
G: Sure
O: And it's--My favorite episodes of the season are down the line, you know? They're coming.
G: Sure
O: Once you get past I think--once you get to seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen--
G: Yeah, absolutely
O: Those are when we get into "my favorite" territory. But I love five, I love four, I love two, I love three, I mean, I think that the two that I feel like are the ones that I think aren't my favorite, but they're solid are one and six. You know?
G: Yeah
O: They're solid. And I think it's like, those are kind of--every once in a while you have to have an episode that has to do something for you.
G: Sure
O: You know? One has to set up the season, so you can't really kind of do all the things that you really want to do in that episode. And six was one that, it felt--it's just sandwiched between two incredible episodes. And that's why that one, to me, is kind of just like, a softer episode. It's because you get these two MASSIVE episodes right in the middle.
G: Yeah
O: And six is this episode that's kind of like, you know, just--it's, the third kid in the bunch, it's a little bit shorter, you know, the big brothers are standing right next to it, that's kind of like six. And it still is a good--I think a really great episode--
G: Oh yeah, absolutely
O: --Fun, I think it's, yeah, I think that's kind of what I'm--I don't even know how I got off on this tangent, but anyways--I was talking about Lord Commander, yeah yeah, Lord Commander. And you know, David Tennant is so good. He's probably one of the actual best voice recorders--voice artists, that I've seen. I mean when you see him record, in that he gets into the performance, you're just like "oh my--" you leave it with a smile on your face, 'cause--and I remember there was this one episode, but you can kind of see in the third episode, in "The Ventrexian", I really wanted a scene where Avocato and Lord Commander are talking. And so I wrote this scene, it was long, you know? It was kind of like, two-three pages, you know? And I kept pushing back, I know that people were like "let's try to cut this, let's try to cut that--" I was like "No no no no no, this is DAVID TENNANT! Okay? Talking as Lord Commander to Avocato. We wanted two minutes. And it was like, that's gonna be as exciting as seeing Titans fighting on the screen! It's like, you WANT to see it! And I remember after the record, David was like "oh my god, I can't wait to see that--" just to see them talking, you know? And ever since we put that in the scene, we--it's kind of lengthy, it's not like super long, it doesn't feel over-long, but you get this kind of really nice dialogue between the two characters that you have not seen! And that's what we're trying to do this season, we're trying to give you these things that you haven't seen that you've always wanted, because they're what we've wanted to do! What we wanted to see, you know? And so we get this really cool backstory with David Tennant who just crushes it every single time he shows up, and we're just lucky to have him. You know? And have his talent, because he's such a good villain, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And it's insane, he's so good.
G: Yeah, he's exceptional, very versatile. And yeah so, to those listening, make sure you tune in this Saturday, and listen to--and watch the next episode of Final Space. But yeah, jumping back again, we've got a new ship this season--
O: Yes
G: The Galaxy Two, a very classic name. It's a beautiful new ship. I mean, you've got HUE back in the AI driver's seat, but yeah, let's talk about how the Galaxy Two came to be.
O: Yeah, you know, it's it was an interesting one 'cause you know, it's like, you know, we wanted to kind of, you know, in that first episode, really show the dangers, the threat, that they're not safe. And when you see that Crimson Light kind of burning, going through the atmosphere of the planet, you're kind of like "oh no, that's their home," you know? They've lost their home. So we always knew that a new ship was coming, you know?
G: Of course
O: And we wanted to kind of, you know, put some meaning behind it. You know, it's not this kind of ship that they find and there's nothing there. And we like ships that kind of, you know, have these meanings 'cause it makes it more powerful. And with this one, it's such a cool thing that you realize that Nightfall got this ship made, you know, FOR this eventuality. I don't think Nightfall thought that she was going to die, back with "The Sixth Key," you know? With the dimensional keys. I think it kind of caught her off guard. But I think that there was always that moment that they knew that they're going to go to Final Space, you know? Eventually. And they need a ship, they're going to need a ship. You know? 'Cause she needed a ship at one point.
G: Yeah
O: So she got this thing made, you know? And I think that shows you how smart that character was, to plan for that eventuality. You know? That, if they ever got to Final Space and they needed something, they know where to go.
G: Yeah
O: And I think that's a really cool thing about this ship, is it, you know, it's interwoven with Nightfall. And you get a really nice moment, kind of with Quinn, and when Kevin Van Newton, you know, asks about Nightfall, you kind of, you know, see that they know that sacrifice kind of didn't go in vain.
G: Yeah, and I think that gives a really good callback to the character, 'cause I know a lot of people were upset to see Nightfall go at the end of--at the end of season two.
O: Yeah
G: And the thing is like, Quinn is of course pre-Nightfall, but at the same time, she's her own character.
O: Exactly
G: And we've seen that play out really well in these past few seasons of--they were both their own independant characters, but at the same time, the same person. So to see that kind of call back into this is this was really really nice.
O: Yeah, and I think it's, you know, it's starting to set something up within Quinn. You know? You're starting to see the beginning of an arc happening with her. And I think it's--you have the Gary Quinn story, or--yeah, the Gary Quinn story, but there's also something going on with Quinn.
G: Yeah
O: And you're gonna really start to see that come into play. And you know I--it sucks, 'cause I know where the story's going, and there's so many things that I wish I could spoil and post--
G: Both of us!
O: Some really awesome shots in the show that I'm, like, I can't show that.
G: Right, yeah
O: And, Quinn is kind of like one of those walking spoilers--
G: Yeah
O: And I can't--I can't show past a certain episode, you know?
G: Right
O: I'm excited for what people are gonna say, and see where her story goes, and I think it goes to a really cool point--even you don't know where it goes, but it's really cool. And, you know, it kind of--going back to the ship of it all--I mean there was a moment that we really kind of wanted to potentially, I think, name the ship Nightfall. But then it felt like, it felt--I think it would have been confusing, you know?
G: Right, yeah
O: 'Cause it was such a big character, and that would almost kind of disservice her character, you know?
G: I was about to say, the same exact thing, yeah.
O: Like, it needed to be something bigger, and so we went a bigger route with it. And I think it's--I think it's really cool. And I think people are gonna be really happy to see, kind of you know like, Nightfall isn't really gone, you know?
G: Sure
O: Nightfall planned things--
G: Yeah
O: --and planned the ship, so there's the eventuality that Nightfall could have planned other things. You know?
G: Sure
O: So we'll see! I mean I think it's--it's--you're starting to see something really cool happen with Quinn, and you're only gonna get more Quinn, you're only gonna get more Quinn and Gary, and I think Quinn has one of the best episodes, and you've seen it--
G: Yeah
O: And it's down the line, not too far away
G: Yeah
O: And I think with this ship, we really wanted to kind of make something that was very kind of reminiscent of the Galaxy One, but it had its own flavor to it. You know? It was almost like a--kind of a little bit more like a hot rod, almost, you know?
G: Sure
O: It had a little bit--it looked fast, but it still had that Galaxy One element to it. And I like the ship, I really do, because it feels like--you get a lot of those cool moments, it's big, it's expansive, you know? But that's the thing I loved about the Galaxy One is that it just felt like a bigger home.
G: Yeah
O: And the Crimson Light felt so crowded, it was--the team squad got so big, and the ship didn't change, so it was just so crowded. So now they're in a bigger ship, and you get to see the room, and things are breathing--
G: Yeah
O: They're in a new home, and I think it's cool, I think it's a really cool ship, and the Galaxy Two felt fitting, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And I think it's gonna be a good one.
G: Yeah, that's one thing going back like way back to early in the podcast, we talked about DVO, talked about the original design work on the Galaxy One was like--just never ending rooms, he was like yeah, we never did a layout for the Galaxy One because, you know, we could keep adding spaces to it because--
O: Yeah
G: It was kind of, that never-ending space where anything that they could need, they did have.
O: Yeah
G: And I think that's one thing about, you know, a home is, you know, it has a set amount of rooms but, you know, it's what you fill them with that kind of makes them a home, so.
O: Yeah, and I think that's, you know, funny enough, one of the things that I really loved about season one was getting to kind of spend time in that ship. And I think the more you spend time in the ship the more you kind of like, you want to see more of it.
G: Yeah
O: And I think it's, you get to start to see that. And I mean, there's something really really nice about this ship and the colors and getting to mix it up and getting to kind of, I don't know, just freshen things up.
G: Yeah
O: 'Cause I think with the Crimson Light, it served its purpose, it was a light, fash ship, very small, but it was also very dark, it was very grungey, you know?
G: Yeah, for sure
O: And it's like, no, let's go back to something that's, you know, a little bit more brighter, a little bit, like, futuristic, you know?
G: Yeah
O: What that would look like. And so, I think this ship is more equipped to handle the dangers of Final Space than the Crimson Light.
G: Right
O: So I think it's--it's gonna be cool to kind of, you know, see everybody's reaction to that, but also, you get to see the Galaxy Two do some really cool stuff
G: Oh yeah
O: And it's cool, I like it.
G: For sure! Yeah and so, wrapping up this episode, we'll talk a little bit about our Bolo and Mooncake episode here at the end, with that incredible sword.
O: Yeah
G: Do you want to dive into that a little bit?
O: Yeah, I think we wanted to kind of do something different this season, you know? And I think every season we're trying some new stuff, we're trying to tease, we're trying to get better, we're trying to improve, and you know what, if it takes us six seasons, if it takes us seven seasons, if we even get that far, there is nothing wrong with wanting to improve and wanting to get better, and I could say that from the get-go.
G: Absolutley.
O: You're--there is never a point where you're gonna have everything figured out, I could be 60, 70 years old and I'm still not gonna have everything figured out.
G: Sure
O: If you approach something that you feel like "hey, I've now reached a point where I know everything and everything should be awesome all the time," then you're not human! You're a robot.
G: Yes
O: 'Cause I don't know of anybody that could do that. When you approach every little thing and you're trying new things, you're trying to get better, you're trying to improve, yeah, you--very well could fall, and fail.
G: Absolutely
O: But at least you tried. At least you tried something new. At least you tried to mix it up. At least you're trying. And I think that's what we wanted to do this season, was try something new. And, you know, I think it was a cool thing to try, just teasing the next episode in a really fun way, you know? And it could just be a tiny little bumper at the end, but now you're getting a sense of "OH. I'm gonna see Mooncake and Bolo kick some butt next episode."
G: Yes!
O: And when you see him rip that sword out, he's just--it's a poster, it's just iconic.
G: Oh yeah, yes.
O: You know? Like when you think abou season three, that image is embedded in your brain now. Because it's that sword, Bolo, and he looks awesome, he's got rippling arms, he's like--it's just epic.
G: Yeah
O: So we wanted to kind of do something like that this season, where it just kind of teasing every episode, at the end of every episode.
G: Yeah
O: And you're kind of getting a sense of "okay I kind of know where this is going, and what we're gonna see in the next episode." And I really love the teamup between those two, one's massive and one's small, you know, but they're both equally powerful.
G: Yeah, yeah
O: And you get a really awesome fight in the next episode, and everybody wanted to see Titan fights, and so that's what we tried to do this season, was give as many Titan fights as we could possibly do.
G: Success, yes
O: And the thing is, like, those are the most taxing to do.
G: Yeah
O: I think we even got to a certain point where the budget was just--we can't do it.
G: No more, no more.
O: But they did a killer job on it, and it's awesome, and it's a really good episode, and I think people are going to enjoy it and, you know, it ends it in such a cool way. You know?
G: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think people are ready for this next episode. But, to wrap up here, what can you tell us going forward about episode three of season three, and--yeah, so what can you hint at?
O: Yeah, you know, this is gonna be a--I think a big episode for people to digest, 'cause you're getting to see a backstory to Avocato, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And it's called "The Ventrexian" for like, a reason, and the thing that I think--people just got to know this, is that we know what--we know where we want to go with this, okay? And you're gonna start seeing kind of, you know, that really confident storytelling where it's like, "hey, this is--we know what we're doing, we're doing this, and enjoy it," you know?
G: Yeah
O: 'Cause it's--or not enjoy it, at this point, 'cause it's--it is--I think, the coolest thing about this episode is, I know where it's going, and it's not just one season arc, it's a multiple season arc.
G: Yeah
O: And you got--you already kind of--it was already sprinkled and teased to you, in season two, you know? And it was kind of, you know, and we can really dive into a lot of things, and I know some people will say "but!--You said another thing!" And it's like, I think at this point, I just gotta let people watch the episode, and then I guarantee you there's gonna be a lot of people who will want to listen to that episode in particular
G: Oh yeah, if you're loving the podcast so far, definitely come back next week 'cause yeah, it's gonna be a killer and we're gonna have a really great breakdown of that.
O: Yeah
G: For sure
O: Yeah, absolutely
G: But yeah, so if you did happen to stumble on this episode after you watched episode two of season three, and you missed our last one breaking down the premiere of season three, definitely go check that out on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or whereever you listen to your podcasts. If you are listening to us talk about Final Space and you love it so much that you just feel it in your heart to go follow us on your favorite podcast app, and rate us if you're listening on Apple Podcast, that would be amazing! You could follow Olan or myself on our socials, Olan Rogers and Gabe W Jones, and you make sure you follow @FinalSpace and @IntoFinalSpace for more exclusive content, and notifications when these episodes drop. Which is every Tuesday at 12 pm Pacific. But yeah, thank you everybody for listening, and we'll see you next time on Into Final Space!
O: Awesome!
G: Thanks guys!
O: Bye!
[Final Space theme song]