Episode Transcript (By @EyelessIris)
GABE: Welcome to another episode of Into Final Thoughts. Before we jump into it, I want to tell you to check out our official parnter of this season of Into Final Space, Cartoon Crave. Cartoon Crave is an incredible network and news source for all things animation, including Final Space. To learn more, check them out on Instagram @cartooncrave_ and @thecartooncrave on Twitter. Now, let's get into the episode.
[Final Space theme song]
G: Right, thankt you for tuning in to another wonderful episode of Into Final Thoughts, today we are on Final Space, season three, episode number six. We are making our way through this season, my name's Gabe Jones, host of Into Final Space. With me as always--
OLAN: Olan Rogers! Hey, what's up?
G: Yo! Creator of Final Space in the house with me today, let's talk about episode six! Of course, as always, if you have not seen this episode, definitely take a moment, go watch it, this is your last breather before we get into the end of this season, as we move onto seven and beyond, so go watch this episode and come back and listen to Into Final Thoughts. We're going to get right into it--starting off, I do want to talk about the Gary KVN moments that we had.
O: Oh yeah
G: So what do you--what do you do to--I guess, when you're writing KVN, how do you--how do you borderline that character of--he's genuinely sometimes very very nice but always tries to be someone annoying. How do you go into your KVN mindset?
O: Yeah that's such a--he's such an interesting character, and I think honestly like--I'm trying to think about the times I've actually kind of like written dialogue for KVN, and I think David writes most of that dialogue for KVN, he really knows how to write Tribore and KVN--
G: Yeah
O: --I think, better than me, and you know I think that it's just kind of like there for that quick kind of relief that's just slightly annoying, you know? And whether or not if it's funny or not funny, it's still annoying. And I think that's the heart of the character, is he's--he's--there's not filter to him, you know? And so I think it's--the moment where it's kind of like, you know, caught Gary off--a little off guard, you know? Something--he could potentially lose Quinn again, and in this moment, the only person there to kind of comfort him is the person that he hates the most, which is KVN. And he gives in for just that split second. And I think that's kind of just an interesting kind of moment, you know? It's just kind of a--I don't know, it's kind of nice.
G: Yeah, and of course you have the legend that is Fred Armisen, you know, voicing KVN, what's it like, you know, working with him--
O: Oh he's great! Yeah he's--he will do a line, I mean, twenty times. You will have to get him to stop, like, and he'll do it in every variation. He'll keep going and going and going and going and going, it's like "yeah--we got it" and he's like "well I could do some more if you want!" You know? He's so eager to do it, and I think that the energy comes off in that, you know, performance whenever you see him, and in the short bursts that you see him, like--it's just KVN, you know? Like, I can't disassociate Fred from KVN at this point. Like when I hear his voice I'm like, "there's KVN, you know?" But he's great, he's actually like really really funny in the booth, and he'll take something and just run with it. So yeah, he's great.
G: Yeah yeah, and speaking of our comedy--dive into a little of our Tribore Quatro back to this episode. The prophecy--what does it mean, Olan, what--and who is Tim Belts speaking of, and what can you tell us that is coming up for our father-son duo?
O: Yeah, this is such an interesting episode, 'cause it's--it deals with kind of a lot of stories kind of converging at the same time, and..you know--but, the Tribore story is like, you're actually kind of coming to the--to the end of their little adventure here pretty soon, and it was kind of, you know, we got so much mileage, and we got to do so many things 'cause he had Tribore and Quatronostro, so any time that I see them, I always get a nice little, you know, little breath before something intense happens. So like, I appreciate them for that, you know? And I think, you know, any time that I see their stories, it's--even with me, I'm like, I want to watch the other stuff, you know? And--but at the same time, you know, I still enjoy the Tribore stuff. So I think it's--it's just one of those things that you try to get as much comedy as you can out of those guys--
G: Right
O: So we could do the really dramatic cool stuff, the action, and you know, the Final Space story, and this is like--I think this is like one of the last episodes where--where we have that kind of C story with Tribore. And yeah, it's--it's--I think there's only one--one more left. And so it's like with him--and it's like, for the next couple episodes, you get to see a lot of fun--fun A stories
G: Yeah
O: So it's--it's gonna be good, and I'm excited for these next couple ones.
G: Yeah, and of course we...we talked about this, is like a, you know, you wanted to harken back to a lot of the things that we've--what we've seen in season one and season two of course, you know, last season we found out about the prophecy, and about Tim Belts, late-stage alcoholic.
O: Yeah
G: So it is fun to bring that back in this episode
O: Yeah! And at the core of it, there is like, a little bit of a story--
G: Yeah, yeah
O: --kind of revolving around Tribore, and--and I think it's really funny that there's just this prophecy--there's a lot of these prophecies revolved around Tribore but the--one of the funny ones is that they'll sprout into a fire elemental. I don't--like, it would be absolutely hysterical that--to see that eventually happen, but--
G: Yeah
O: --but I think that--that the cool part about Tribore's story is you kind of get a little bit of, you know...one thing that we really realized, and we kind of, you know, were thinking about, season one and season two is, like, what have our heroes, you know, what have they done? You know? They kind of have not saved anybody.
G: Right, haven't been very heroic.
O: So it's like, we've got to give them you know somebody, something heroic that they've done, they've done something. And I think we have decided to give that to Tribore in this little kind of funny, kind of obscure little side story where he kind of is going to kind of, you know, rescue all the people that have been trapped in Final Space, not necessarily the team squad, but just these kind of aliens that have been trapped--
G: True
O: --in the deep deep ocean of Final Space, you know? So I think it's--it's kind of a fun story to give him and, you know, at the end of the day, he actually did something, you know?
G: Yeah
O: He's actually done something, and so, hey! He actually saved somebody! Which is kind of a rare thing for our team squad.
G: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And of course we--we move from the comedy to the drama that Final Space so well balances, and we--of course, our two big stories this episode, with Quinn on one end and Ash on the other. Let's talk about Quinn first. So she's, of course, finally got the chip--the Nightfall chip. But I think one of the big things--seeing a lot of Fantrexians asking, and I think the team mentioned in the BTS of this episode, of, you know, that balance of where does Quinn begin and--or--Quinn begin and Nightfall end, and how does--this question will effect Quinn going forward?
O: Yeah, I think you know, it's--it's one of those things where--I don't think, you know, it--in my idea, and kind of how I approached it was, you know, something kind of--you know, it was always leading to this, you know? And whether or not Nightfall is Quinn, and Quinn is Nightfall, is--is the question. You know? And I think that she's going to kind of be--somebody that has to kind of be a little bit--she's going to be a little bit like Nightfall.
G: Sure
O: She's not the exact--person, of that, you know? She's going on a differen course, though there's still events that are gonna happen that kind of transcend time and space, you know? And, you know, that kind of says "hey, this is her destiny a little bit," you know?
G: Sure
O: Where you're kind of seeing events play out where it's like, could this have happened in Nightfall's timeline? Or one of the timelines, you know? And I think that's--that's where you're kind of starting to see the evolution of Quinn.
G: Yeah, yeah, and I mean, it's--it's interesting, you know? She's just such this massive character and at the same time, we had her gone for--for a season, but at the same time kind of like she was there with Nightfall, but Nightfall was her own character. So you know, as a viewer, it's--we've suffered with them at this point. You know, had Quinn season one and season three, had Nightfall season two. And, you know, I think a lot of people are interested to see how that is going to effect Quinn going forward, of--you know, who is the Nightfall she'll become? ...Yep, we also had Ash on this episode, was obviously a major point, and we met Invictus with that giant pink eye looking-thing? But do you want to dive in on Invictus real quick and what kind of inspired that look?
O: Yeah I mean, you know it's--it's one of those--we were trying to kind of dive into this idea that Invictus is--the deeper you go into Invictus, there's a new look for each kind of thing, you know?
G: Yeah
O: You have that Avatar image that was so kind of iconic in season two,--
G: Yeah
O: --you see the--basically, the energy being torn apart by this black hole prison, and then once you go inside that energy there's something alive inside, you know? And obviously, you know, many people probably kind of either comparison of Lord of the Rings, and I think--
G: That's what I thought
O: Yeah! And I think it's--it's a cool comparison, you know?
G: Yeah
O: I don't think anybody was kind of like, "let's go for the Lord of the Rings thing!" Think it was just a natural like, "what if it's an eye?" And you know, it's such a visceral image that I think it's--it's a cool visual. And, you know, I think once you kind of really see--I don't think we've seen Invictus' true form, I think we're seeing the compact version.
G: Yeah
O: A form that's kind of basically being ripped apart and being forced to stay in a ball, essentially.
G: Yeah
O: And inside of it there's something alive, you know? And so that's kind of what we're seeing in this episode is that Ash got pulled into this place, and you're seeing kind of the inner-sanctum of what this energy is. And that, whether or not that has a physical form, it's still kind of--I don't know, just creepy and kind of--
G: Yeah, yeah
O: Yeah, I like it, it's--
G: Yeah, definitely kind of harkens back to the first episode when we were talking about the--you know, the sickly nature of Final Space, kind of--and I mean, with--with Invictus kind of being the whole center point of this, and the--the true darkness that we talked about in the--going level-by-level deeper into this dimension of Final Space, and how it just got worse and worse the deeper you go. I think it really gives a certain air, a certain ambience to, you know, when we're having these types of really really deep conversations, you know, with you know, Ash, Invictus, you know, of Ash trying to figure out who she is and who she is among the universe, I mean, she is of course, you know, the powers of Invictus that she's a memebr of the team squad, do you want to talk about that dynamic a little bit, you know? With her facing those two paths?
O: Yeah, I think what you're starting to see with Ash is the beginning of a very big character-defining arc for her. And something that's really cool that we've been trying to set up, and I hope people have been seeing, is that you're seeing--kind of like the leadership of--on the team squad, kind of doing decisions that aren't in the best interest for the team squad. Now granted, these are no-win decisions.
G: True
O: You know? A split decision that you have to make--is it safety for everybody, or do I try to save this one person?
G: Yep.
O: And whether or not you agree with those decisions, you know, I think that Gary tried to do what was best for everybody. And--but in that process, it sets up a little bit of doubt, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And I think that doubt is--it starts off as kind of like a little bit of a scratch, and it becomes a scab, and then we're, you know, it's starting to become an itch. And once you start the itching, it's kind of like something where you're going to reopen that wound at some point.
G: Yeah
O: And I think it's kind of a nice thing to plant these tiny little things throughout, where you're kind of seeing that--kind of the holy trinity, Gary, Quinn, Avocato, are kind of, a little bit in flux. You know?
G: Yeah
O: That being--you're seeing, basically, you're starting to doubt these characters. And something that I--that I really liked, and that I tried to do, or that we tried to do in kind of this season was to kind of really set up the idea of like what is a hero, you know?
G: Yeah
O: Was, the team squad, are they heroes?
G: Yeah
O: What have they done? What have they saved? What have they--you know? They haven't done anything! And really, at the end of the day, we think that they're the good guys.
G: Sure
O: But kind of some of the best bad guys are the ones that you think "oh man, they could be the good guy in a different reality," you know? Really how have this kind of--on Invictus' side you have this guy that keeps Invictus trapped.
G: Yeah
O: You know? Now, the whole "consume life across everything" is the one caveat of "hey, there might be something else up with this thing"--but you know, there is something to Invictus, and I think you're starting to see a little bit of Invictus trying to manipulate, and sew doubt, in kind of the crew. And you're kind of getting to see that with I think Ash, and it was such a cool, I think, entry point into this, into that kind of idea. And so yeah, it--it's--she becomes the, you know, pretty much the forefront of the next couple episodes
G: Yeah
O: And I think it's--it's a really thrilling story, and it's emotional, it's raw, it's--it's got a lot of really cool energy to it--
G: Yeah
O: And Ashly does such a great job in the performance. But that was kind of the idea, you know, kind of--kind of really set up the idea of--or ask the question, "are our guys--" or "is the team squad the heroes?" you know?
G: Yeah
O: And, it felt like a cool angle, you know? To kind of tell that story and to pose the two paths, you know? But yeah, that was essentially the idea.
G: Yeah and you know, of course we have Gary, who's kind of framed as our main protagonist since season one, and you know, you see him go out of his way to do things to help people, but at the same time, just the failure after failure, no matter how much work he puts into it, and so you have this kind of posing Ash against Gary, it makes sense from a strategic standpoint, if you're thinking from Invictus--which I think is a really really interesting way to approach it. 'Cause you have also the--another big section of this episode is Gary taking on Quinn's pain during surgery. Do you mind just kind of--let's just chat about Gary, and you know, for you, who is Gary, you know, at heart, with all these successive failures?
O: Yeah, you know, I think Gary--I think this is a big character-defining moment for him. I really do. I think you're--he's doing something so selfless in this moment, and you know, we could go and debate whether or not, you know, it could be a thing where he could give Quinn the ability to get through that, but it didn't seem plausible, like, she's so weakened by this sickness and she's kind of at death's door, that, if she could have gone through that she would have been superhuman, you know? And I'm not saying that, you know, she's not superhuman and awesome and, you know, amazing. It's just that, at the same--at the same level, it's something where we want to kind of put--making sure that it kind of comes off as realistic as possible, you know? Like--you know, and once you see her in pain, and the drill going into her head, you would pass out in complete shock, you know?
G: Yeah
O: You know, in that moment, where she had to stay kind of awake, and she does kind of pass out, but it's like, she could die.
G: Yeah
O: You know? The pain is THAT painful that, you know, it's--it's--she's gonna, you know, pretty much redline right there.
G: Yep
O: Gary has to make that decision where it's like, you know, is there anything that he could do, he could transfer all that pain to you. And the--I really like the idea, because it connects them. You know? And it kind of, you know, it shows that Gary's going to put everything he has on the line for her--
G: Yeah
O: You know? And I think there's something really powerful with that, whether or not people agree, I don't know! But I do think it's--it's a nice moment, and--
G: Yep
O: It--at its basic molecule, yeah, it's just a nice moment.
G: Yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed it. And to kind of connect and transition on that note, just, for people that don't know, we usually record these episodes before the actual episode premieres on Saturdays, but by the power that be of scheduling this week, you're listening to us talk on the Sunday after the episode came out, and so I put on my Twitter, (which follow @IntoFinalSpace if you don't already, so you don't miss out on stuff like this) and I asked you guys, what you wanted to know from this episode. And so I'm going to dive into a couple questions from that. @Taterbots asked, "how will Quinn and Gary's interactions change now that she's not keeping this secret from him?"
O: Yeah I think what you kind of see is, that--the wall come down, in that kind of brief moment, and I think that's what you're gonna kind of see throughout is that, you know, there is nothing left to hide, with Quinn, you know? And, you're gonna kind of start seeing kind of that relationship I think really blossom in a nice way. And obviously there's some tough things ahead, but I--you know, from there, you're just going to have to wait and see. You know? I think that's it, at the core of it.
G: Yeah, yeah for sure. Another favorite of mine, from the questions that we got is from @fsrambles, we've talked about KVN a little bit, but I guess just to add to that with HUE, we've seen them, you know, I feel, grow, and mature this season, they've had some of course really bigger parts in this episode and the last few. Can you dive into, you know, how these characters have developed and what we'll see with them going forward?
O: ......Yeah say that again?
G: Uh, KVN and HUE have grown a lot this season, what can we expect from them going forward?
O: Are you talking about Kevin Van Newton, or are you talking about KVN?
G: KVN--annoying KVN, our robot companions. Electronics, I know, I know.
O: Yeah! You know, I think that HUE is--man, HUE is such a great character. And you're really getting to see HUE back into the reins of his old job.
G: Yeah
O: You know? Kind of--still kind of figuring things out, kind of using all this processing power, but you know, kind of doing things that he's not used to though, you know? Which is asking for help, but also, kind of keeping secrets, he's still having to do very human things that he's not used to, and I think that's all in the evolution of HUE, and you see that he's kind of like slowly becoming a little bit more human throughout the course of the thing and--it's cool! It's cool to see HUE kind of expand and grow and--KVN I feel like is a constant.
G: Yeah
O: Like, he will never, probably ever change. He is KVN.
G: Yeah
O: That is--and that is it! He's a constant character, and there might be some--we always try to give KVN like one cool moment per season, you know? Something that he--there's a redeeming quality to him. And whether or not that happens this season, you'll just have to wait and see.
G: Yeah, yeah, it's--it's interesting, you know, to see all these characters kind of grow and change and grow literally as from @bruzzy4, the question which rolls into my last question for you, the reason for aging up Ash and talking about her new design, can you dive into that a little bit?
O: Yeah I think--I can't even remember the process of--what went into the design of Ash. I don't--I just remember David constantly saying "it needs to be really cool" and "something different with the hair," you know? Like, I just--I keep hearing that in my head, and I know that there's a few different styles, that I'm sure DVO could probably share or something like that, but I don't even know what kind of--it's been so long, man.
G: Yeah
O: Like, it was back in like, probably the height of the pandemic, riots were breaking out, and if you were to say "hey, remember what went into the decision of the Ash design?" I'd be like, "I remember cars buring in the street, that's what I remember!" But I do remember, you know, David kind of really being a big voice in how that design kind of came through.
G: Yeah
O: And I think that, you know, the design is really nice, you know? And I think I--I remember that--the discussion of like, do we keep the one eye, or the two eyes, it was something that we, you know, kind of had constantly discussed, and I think we ended up going with the two because of, just the idea that, the team squad had always accepted Ash the way she was--
G: Sure
O: And it is kind of interesting that Invictus wanted to change Ash. And so it was--it was kind of like a nice--a nice yin and yang, you know what I mean?
G: Yeah
O: Like where the team squad had really accepted everybody, you know? Like--
G: Yeah
O: Didn't matter who you were, what kind of weird aspect, I mean like they accepted Clarence, you know? KVN is still in the team squad somehow! So it's like, I think they--they accepted everybody with kind of open arms, and--and I think with that design, it says that there's something going on, you know?
G: Yeah, yeah, and we left off there with Ash back on the--back on the ship, what would we have in store for episode seven, as we get to the crazy ahead?
O: Yes! Seven's a--seven's an interesting one, it--it really kind of takes--it takes a really interesting dark turn towards the end of the episode. And I think this is where you're gonna kind of start seeing things really escalate and the stakes start to raise, you know? They just start to raise and raise and raise and raise, and you're getting to kind of see the seriousness of where they're at, and the threats that lay around them, and really how insidious Invictus is, like Invictus is--
G: Yeah
O: --pretty evil, and you gotta show that, you can't just have a creepy voice talking into the abyss, like you gotta show like why is this a bad thing, you know?
G: Yeah
O: And I think once you see episode seven, you're gonna think "oh man, this is--this is a bad guy, this is the threat--how do you defeat this thing?" You know?
G: Yeah
O: And, it's--it's I think a really cool episode, 'cause you get this--you still get a lot of fun in it, like you know?
G: Yeah
O: Like, there's some fun with the Gatekeeper, and at the top of the episode, it fills--like there's some moments in there that I still laugh pretty hard at, and then it kind of--it's like a slow descent, a kind of darkness where you really--by the end of the episode, it takes a whole different tone and shape, like--
G: Yeah
O: It just kind of gradually gets there, and, you know, you get a really I think powerful ending, and kind of--you start seeing the evolution of the show, as a whole.
G: Yeah
O: I think this is the--this is kind of a--this is a good gateway into the second half of the season.
G: Yeah. Yeah, I definitely agree, and I think that's a good way to bring episode six to a close. If you missed the announcement last week, we are transcribing Final Thoughts, slowly but surely, thanks to Stevil, @EyelessIris on Twitter, she is knocking them out, so the first two episodes, at the time of recording this, are available at gabrielwjones.com/intofinalspace. Olan, thank you for joining me on this one, give him a follow @OlanRogers and myself @GabrielWJones, and you could find us respectively @FinalSpace and @IntoFinalSpace on both Instagram and Twitter. Get ready, Fantrexians, 'cause we get heavy on the next episode, so we'll see you next time on Into Final Space, thanks guys!
O: Into Final Space!
[Final Space theme song]